Guy Sajer has passed away.

Manilianus

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I have rather mixed feelings when it comes to news of Wehrmacht/SS etc. veterans passing away, but nevertheless Le soldat oublié was a great novel-memoir.
 

Craig Benn

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Wasn't there a great deal of debate over whether his memoirs were genuine or not? I remember reading some convincing arguments it was fake.
 

STAVKA

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He made military service at the age of 15-18 years old (1942-45).

I made my military service between 15-18 years old (1985-89), the similarities abruptly ends there.
 

Gunner Scott

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They have a military in your part of europe?

He made military service at the age of 15-18 years old (1942-45).

I made my military service between 15-18 years old (1985-89), the similarities abruptly ends there.
 

Manilianus

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Wasn't there a great deal of debate over whether his memoirs were genuine or not? I remember reading some convincing arguments it was fake.
As far as I know, the matter wasn't solved to date - the general consensus on both sides seems to be that this is a great novel with lots of facts distorted and lots of other facts impossible/difficult to check.

My mixed feelings, though, are born of that we're still talking about a soldier of the aggressor's army, his warpath being that of a unit which commited a series of war crimes throughout the war. And I remember that there's a single brief moment in "Forgotten soldier" when Sajer says that "Hitler wasn't so bad" (it's a loose quote).

His book can be seen as anti-war (although this statement is also disputed by some) and it's an invaluable source (bearing in mind its' limitations) for both military historians and psychologists alike. But Sajer was by no means Remarque, and I'm not talking about writing style.
 
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gorkowskij

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Don't hold your grudges too close. My Polish grandfather was Wehrmacht (like Sajer a foreigner who spoke German) because it was either accept the "offer" or go back to the labor camp. After the war, that grandfather was best friends with a former Desert Rat, who left one hand behind at Tobruk. My other grandfather, a veteran of combat in the Philippines, didn't mind so much when America fell in love with Japanese cars. Yes, convicted war criminals should serve their time, but soldiers/sailors caught up by global events and not guilty of crimes, even if hoodwinked by a charlatan, have forgiven each other and need not be judged by us.
 
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Manilianus

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Don't hold your grudges too close. My Polish grandfather was Wehrmacht (like Sajer a foreigner who spoke German) because it was either accept the "offer" or go back to the labor camp. After the war, that grandfather was best friends with a former Desert Rat, who left one hand behind at Tobruk. My other grandfather, a veteran of combat in the Philippines, didn't mind so much when America fell in love with Japanese cars. Yes, convicted war criminals should serve their time, but soldiers/sailors caught up by global and events and not guilty of crimes, even if hoodwinked by a charlatan, have forgiven each other and need not be judged by us.
Oh, don't take my post this way, I'm not holding grudges - I know that it's easy to take moral high ground while sitting in a comfortable chair. Like I've said, my thoughts are leaning towards "hesitant", not "thoughtlessly condemning".
 
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Doug Leslie

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There is discussion regarding the veracity of the book here:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26304530?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

I think the point is well made that Sajer would have no reason to make a false claim as a Frenchman living in France to have fought with a notorious German military unit. It is possible to appreciate his insight into the conditions facing German soldiers in Russia when it was clear that the war was lost without sympathising with the motives of the author for joining the German army in the first place.
 

JimWhite

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...but soldiers/sailors caught up by global and events and not guilty of crimes, even if hoodwinked by a charlatan, have forgiven each other and need not be judged by us.
Various documentaries where veteran combatants who were once "enemies" come together and talk, hug, cry, salute etc...are some of the most poignant human stories I have ever had the privilege of watching.
 

Hardrada

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I think the point is well made that Sajer would have no reason to make a false claim as a Frenchman living in France to have fought with a notorious German military unit.
Sajer was the german name of his mother he used in trying not to be identified. He failed and was fired from his job when discovered.
In France he is known more for his "bandes dessinées" (cartoons ?) written as Dimitri (another alias) about an ex-franco/german prisoner in the gulag (the albums are full of humor, his fiancée is named Lubianka !).
 

Zakopious

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There is discussion regarding the veracity of the book here:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26304530?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

I think the point is well made that Sajer would have no reason to make a false claim as a Frenchman living in France to have fought with a notorious German military unit. It is possible to appreciate his insight into the conditions facing German soldiers in Russia when it was clear that the war was lost without sympathising with the motives of the author for joining the German army in the first place.
Because his mother was German, Sajer was subject to the German draft.
He had no real choice: join or be drafted.
 

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As far as I know, the matter wasn't solved to date - the general consensus on both sides seems to be that this is a great novel with lots of facts distorted and lots of other facts impossible/difficult to check....
When I read his book 18 years ago (give or take) I had not yet heard there was controversy surrounding the book. I read it in the good faith that it was a straight up autobiographical nonfiction book.

While reading it I became aware of all the WWII cliches that seemed to have happened to him, and by the end of the book, my final thought was, "I don't believe this. There are just too many Hollywood moments."

I have never bothered with any sort of a fact check. However, I was at the time a Revenue Agent who had been involved in some 600 investigations. I developed a very good sense of when one someone was blowing smoke up my @ss during an interview And I had that feeling while reading his book.
 

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Wasn't there a great deal of debate over whether his memoirs were genuine or not? I remember reading some convincing arguments it was fake.
there were some points but what I heard is that as a front line soldier his knowlege of the bigger picture... Belgorad etc was murky or lost to faded memories...
 

sswann

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Consider his age.
I returned 45 years ago from Vietnam and some details and memories have grown a little fuzzy and a couple have a dream-like quality where I ask my self if they really happened.
Even though other Marines have affirmed my memories.
Unless you can PROVE he is false just leave it be.
 
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