Gun squad Inherent FP

[nekengren2]

A gun with crew has a target 2 hexes away.
It fires the gun at the target.
Can it fire Inherent FP S1F on the same target?

The 2 important rules I think are........

7.352 A crew/HS/SMC that fires any SW/Gun loses its inherent FP until attacked/attacking in CC or the end of that Player Turn (whichever comes first) [EXC: 7.353].

7.353 In both of the above cases, Subsequent First Fire (8.3), FPF (8.31), and Final Fire (8.4) vs adjacent units retain halved inherent FP for those attacks (regardless of how they were used during First Fire)—although use of full SW/Gun capability during such attacks can negate inherent FP in the normal manner. See the 8.41 EX.

7.532 talks about LOSING inherent FP.
7.353 talks about the exception........................which can be interpreted 2 ways I think depending on Parenthesis

Subsequent First Fire (8.3), FPF (8.31), and (Final Fire (8.4) vs adjacent units ) (THIS IS CORRECT VERSION)

(Subsequent First Fire (8.3), FPF (8.31), and Final Fire) (8.4) vs adjacent units

Since FPF is always adjacent units my interpretation is the second way which means.........................The crew normally cannot fire Inherent FP (as 7.352 is describing). The exception (as 7.353 is describing) is only if something is adjacent.

Couldn't find the answer pouring through FAQ and forums.

Based on Feedback below the correct answer is..........
Yes, Inherent FP S1F AreaFire at the target 2 hexes away is allowed (assuming no other enemy is adjacent)

Neal

 

[Robin Reeve]

A crew is not a squad.
If it fires the Gun, it forfeits use of its Inherent FP.

 

[Philippe Briaux]

A7.353 May a HS that fired a SW in First Fire use its inherent FP in Subsequent First Fire vs. a non-adjacent target?
A. Yes, under the usual conditions (range, etc.).

 

[Eagle4ty]

Pretty much hit it on the head. A crew/HS firing a "Gun" cannot use its IFP to fire S1F/FPF/FF unless the enemy unit is an adjacent unit (A7.352). As Philippe pointed out use of a SW is a bit different.

 

[nekengren2]

ok thanks guys. This is one of those things that the rules reading can interpret differently.

Philippe yes the HS with SW uses a different base rule 9.11. But...........I think the effect is the same............no S1F/DFF IFP unless adjacent.

9.11 MMC USAGE: A squad may fire any one SW MG at no cost to its own Inherent FP, or any two SW MG at their normal MG FP effect at the cost of forfeiting its own Inherent FP for the current and any remaining fire phases in that Player Turn [EXC: 7.353]. Any other MMC may fire only one SW MG (regardless of type) with full FP, but in so doing forfeits its Inherent FP for any remaining fire phases in that Player Turn [EXC: 7.353].

 

[Juan SantaX]

I think I learned this wrong then.... And also the concepts of defensive first fire, SFF, FPF and FF

I read al the rules that pointed Neal, and I dont understand which one is the rule that forbids a crew to do this (counter used in brackets):
1.- fire a gun (1F) then SFF with his inherent as area fire (FF), and later FPF, {all in the attacker movement phase}
2.- fire a gun (1F) then intensive fire (FF) {all in the attacker movement phase} /// and then even FPF with its inherent fp ///
3.- fire a gun (1F) {in the attacker movement phase} then intensive fire vs adjacent unit (FF) {defensive fire phase}
4.- fire a gun (1F) {in the attacker movement phase} then use inherent fp vs adjacent unit (FF) {defensive fire phase}

I think 2, 3 and 4 are clear.... which rule forbids 1? A7.352? No, because the exception A7.353 allows it

Subsequent first fire has limits (No at long range, inherent plus weapons, closer enemy), but can be done at normal range, not only adyacent...

Robin, Neal and Eagle4ty must be right, but I dont see it... What I miss?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Inherent FP used as SFF does not need a adjacent target. Does not matter how/what the crew fired as First Fire.

 

[Stewart]

A crew is not a squad.
If it fires the Gun, it forfeits use of its Inherent FP.

Just as a HS can fire its inherent FP after using a sw/gun...it just forfeits the "FULL" FP.
When a SQUAD fires a SW it doesn't Forfeit its fp...(i.e. First Fire opportunities)

You get both to fire FF with a squad...but only the SW or inherent on the First Fire shot. then SFF applies normally.

 

[mgmasl]

Pretty much hit it on the head. A crew/HS firing a "Gun" cannot use its IFP to fire S1F/FPF/FF unless the enemy unit is an adjacent unit (A7.352). As Philippe pointed out use of a SW is a bit different.

Rule says GUN/SW everytime.. IMO no difference at all in using any of them..

 

[Juan SantaX]

This rules and this language (english) are devilish ?

If we get into another lockdown, as sadly can be forecast, I will study the rules as if they were a new spanish tax law! I think this rules are at the same level of difficulty (I would say they are worse!!) ??

 

[nekengren2]

Just as a HS can fire its inherent FP after using a sw/gun...it just forfeits the "FULL" FP.
When a SQUAD fires a SW it doesn't Forfeit its fp...(i.e. First Fire opportunities)

You get both to fire FF with a squad...but only the SW or inherent on the First Fire shot. then SFF applies normally.

hmmmmm.

So my question .....................
A gun with crew has a target 2 hexes away.
It fires the gun at the target.
Can it fire Inherent FP S1F on the same target?

Stewart you are saying Yes he can fire as AreaFire on the target 2 hexes away after firing thegun? (assuming no closer targets).

 

[klasmalmstrom]

7.353 talks about the exception........................which can be interpreted 2 ways I think depending on Parenthesis
Subsequent First Fire (8.3), FPF (8.31), and (Final Fire (8.4) vs adjacent units )

This is the correct interpretation.

 

[Actionjick]

This rules and this language (english) are devilish ?

If we get into another lockdown, as sadly can be forecast, I will study the rules as if they were a new spanish tax law! I think this rules are at the same level of difficulty (I would say they are worse!!) ??

I agree completely! I'm still amazed that those who have English as a second language can make sense of the rules.????

 

[Stewart]

hmmmmm.

So my question .....................
A gun with crew has a target 2 hexes away.
It fires the gun at the target.
Can it fire Inherent FP S1F on the same target?

Stewart you are saying Yes he can fire as AreaFire on the target 2 hexes away after firing thegun? (assuming no closer targets).

He gets SFF, but with the limitations as Klas points out. Instead of the answered "he loses inherent fp" comments.
A squad firing 2 sw "loses inherent fp" as well.