Ground Depressions?

TDR

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In the attached picture there are many depressions. These are roughly 2 – 3 m deep but will not be displayed in the games elevation model nor appear in the original DEM data.

As they are below ground level if one is in them you can not see out, but if you stand outside you are able to see across and to some extent into the depression, depending on where one is from the edge.

In the Terrain Dialog there is a height value, can this be used to represent the depression by using a negative height?

Also if I set a vision restriction for a depression that restriction affects both a unit in the depression, which is correct, and a unit on normal ground level looking across the depression, which is not technically correct. A unit outside and looking across a depression should not have a vision restriction as such.

Failing that how can they be represented as they are not contour depressions as such and so as pointed out already do not get picked up by the various elevation models

Thanks
 

CPangracs

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In two words, you can't. You don't need to. If you place the FOV cursor in the middle of the depressed area, it SHOULD show that you can't see out. Anything placed there that has a specific height should act as usual, and give you visual out or be visible according to it's height.

If, for some reason, this isn't the case, I suggest you place a bunch of holes there which would provide hull-down for vehicles inside.

Pat may have some other suggestions.
 

TDR

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In two words, you can't. You don't need to. If you place the FOV cursor in the middle of the depressed area, it SHOULD show that you can't see out. Anything placed there that has a specific height should act as usual, and give you visual out or be visible according to it's height.
It should but it can not as the elevation data does not pick the depression up.

Also these "depressions" don't have gentle sides, more like cliffs. They are the result of rock and dirt quarrying for road material and other such things.

The only other thing I could think of was tampering with the elevation data but that sounds like an "over the top" approach.
 

Pat Proctor

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You can create a structure, capable of holding the appropriate type of unit, but 0 meters high, and give a visibikity restriction of 0 for occupying unit types. Then it will only obstruct vision from outside.
 

TDR

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The attached picture shows a structure as suggested and the same place with out the structure. The LOS view is the same in both.

The purple thing:
Terrain with:
Vision reduction = 0
Height = 0
Movement = 1 not an issue here
Capability : Structure
All aspects of structure set to 0
(ie direct and indirect fire, size modifier and altitude bonus all = 0)
Can accept dismounts and vehicles.
Can shoot set for dismounts and vehicles.

Due to the depth of these it may not be possible for a tank to shoot from it in direct mode but any form of indirect fire weapon should be easily set up in these areas and fire from them.

Note these are not natural features but man made in most cases. There are other features again man made similar but tend to be smaller in area, such as dams or tanks. These may be100+ m wide and about 2 m below ground level. A dam does have a wall on one side. Due to normal conditions, ie no rain, most are dry.

This may suggest that either:
1. The terrain Type dialog could accept a negative height to represent below ground level situations.
OR
2. A structure could have an Altitude modifier to represent a basement level case ( ie below ground).

Option 1 would be more appropriate as a representation.
 

Pat Proctor

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You might have to set the height to something >0 for the sighting to kick in. Perhaps .1 or 1 ( I cannot remember if the entry allows fractions--I don't think it does). I think the engine is forgoing the vision routine because the height is 0 (which, in engine talk, means "no impact on vision").
 

TDR

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You might have to set the height to something >0 for the sighting to kick in. Perhaps .1 or 1 ( I cannot remember if the entry allows fractions--I don't think it does). I think the engine is forgoing the vision routine because the height is 0 (which, in engine talk, means "no impact on vision").
Set the height to 1m as the height only accepts whole integers. This had no efect on a unit in the "purple" object. ( I made a complete new terrain type incase old one had side effects when changing parameters). It did have a slight effect on LOS towards the object,looking at object from normal ground, as it teh object has a nomoimal height. This is the opposite of actual effect.

Seems these nice little bits of terrain may have problems to be modelled by the system.
 

Pat Proctor

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In this particular instance, I think what you are trying to do is at a level of abstraction below that for which the AATF Engine is created. The elevation model and terrain modeling is designed to work at 100m resolution. It sounds like these depressions you are trying to model are only a few meters wide.

This is really the problem the "hole" was supposed to address. Will that not work for your purposes. Alternately, if the unit in the hole is going to be an enemy, you can simulate the same thing with the unit being invisible and becoming visible when you want it to emerge from the hole.
 

TDR

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the ones on the map are 1000m x 500m and 500m x 200m

The "mined" places are in the normal range of 100+m x 100+m.

From what I can see Google Earth, free version, does pick up the height differences with these.

There may be various factors affecting this from original DEM data through to its modification in the game , and the structure/shape of the diggings and how they get evaluated in various determinations of height and game abstractions.

At present I don't want to actually put a unit in any of them.
 

TDR

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Pat, these depressions should be on the electronic version of that map you down loaded.

One other option is just fill them up as huge water holes and "believe" it rained heavily and they filled up. Just need 4 inches of rain in a single day will do and lots of belief/faith out here, its as dry as a bone.
 
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