GREEN STEEL MARINE OMG $300.00 Plus!!!

Gunner Scott

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Pitman

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I've finished updating the First to Fight section of the World of ASL, except for some photographs of One Wild Ride. You will probably enjoy the extended review of that product. I may upload it all tonight.
 

Blackcloud6

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I tell you, I've lost respect for Wild Bill Wilder for publishing this crap and selling in the manner that he does.
 

MarkDV

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I tell you, I've lost respect for Wild Bill Wilder for publishing this crap and selling in the manner that he does.

I agree with Mr. Schwarz on this one.

It seems VERY shortsighted on WBWilders part...and this could get the copyright lawyers a coming too....

Mark DV
Ada, MI
 

Michael Dorosh

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Yeah, he's doing real poorly. Not counting current auctions, I tally up $7131 and change, for thirty modules, since he started selling these in January. On average, 237 dollars a piece. I'm not saying money is more important than quality, but I think he must be doing something right if people are still not only paying for them but making all these green comments about him. ;) More power to him. Probably be a nicer hobby all told if people supported each other more instead of just tore each other down sight unseen, but I guess that's just me. I'll look forward to reading Mark's informed commentary on his website - weblink for anyone curious is here:

http://www.desperationmorale.com/worldofasl/worldfirsttofight.html
 

Blackcloud6

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Mike, it doesn't take much to see that these modules don't follow the rules of the game well, change important parts, appear to have no playtesting, have only a few scenarios whereas a $19.00 AP has ten or 12 well playetsted and designed scenarios. WBW is doing all the bad things he has criticized in the past of more well intentioned and capable game designers. So I have no respect for this kind of thing.

He's being lazy too. He could take some more time and flesh out his rules, test the scenarios, make more scenarios, make an effort to print them well and in quantity and sell for normal prices.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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Mike, it doesn't take much to see that these modules don't follow the rules of the game well, change important parts, appear to have no playtesting, have only a few scenarios whereas a 419.00 AP has ten or 12 well playetsted and designed scenarios. WBW is doing all the bad things he has criticized in the past of more well intentioned and capable game designers. So I have no respect for this kind of thing.

He's being lazy too. He could take some more time and flesh out his rules, test the scenarios, make more scenarios, make an effort to bring them well and in quantity and sell for normal prices.
I can't say, I've never seen them. But I'm not willing to crucify either him or anyone who has "invested" in these sight unseen.

I'm not arguing with you or defending him, either. I have no reason to, but what is obvious to me in return is that they are clearly of value to someone - enough value that they are willing to bid high values on it. This Marine one has five separate bidders. I think it says more about ASL players and their willingness to spend their money than it does Wild Bill. He's crafty like a fox and knows where his bread is buttered. If he can make 7,000 dollars selling what may be ASL toilet paper, I say go for it. I hope he makes a million bucks.
 

Ray Woloszyn

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If these are really from the old "Wild Bill" stuff from way back when I guess I need to pull them out of a box, slap ASL on them and put 'em up as first editions. Wow! Makes my goal of being a completist worthless because I will not go after this stuff.
 

Michael Dorosh

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If these are really from the old "Wild Bill" stuff from way back when I guess I need to pull them out of a box, slap ASL on them and put 'em up as first editions. Wow! Makes my goal of being a completist worthless because I will not go after this stuff.
It does present the collector with a unique challenge, but the fact they are hand-made and self-published kind of lets one off the hook in that regard.
 

rdw5150

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Hi-

Saw this on eBay, and wow, there are people out there who really have money to burn. But to me this sets a bad presidence, who else with a desk top publishing will do the same thing?

http://cgi.ebay.com/GREEN-STEEL-MARINE-ARMOR-IN-WORLD-WAR-II-ASL-Module-1_W0QQitemZ190325916772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c504f0464&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I can see paying 10 bucks for that piece o' crap, but not 300.............:nuts:


Scott
over 300 buck for 5 scenarios of who know how good a quality in terms of playtesting and some counters.....

I think its crazy, but its not my money

Peace

Roger
 

Justiciar

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Michael,

I think a tangent to Fred's point is akin to you point about Burnie Fox's recommending that book on Ortona, on which you noted a much finer pieces of scholarship. What Fred, I believe, (but I cannot of course speak for him and I may be wrong here) is saying is that he sees and believes there is finer scholarship to be had on how to handle the material WBW has published.

Now you have said you have not seen it, nor to be fair to you have I. But having listed to others comment in a similar line to Fred (EX: Pitman) there seems to be something in what they say. [Your point about what people will buy/market forces etc. still stands. But that is not what I am trying to get at here.]

Finer 'ASL scholarship' (module) on the topic is what is being called for it seems.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Michael,

I think a tangent to Fred's point is akin to you point about Burnie Fox's recommending that book on Ortona, on which you noted a much finer pieces of scholarship. What Fred, I believe, (but I cannot of course speak for him and I may be wrong here) is saying is that he sees and believes there is finer scholarship to be had on how to handle the material WBW has published.

Now you have said you have not seen it, nor to be fair to you have I. But having listed to others comment in a similar line to Fred (EX: Pitman) there seems to be something in what they say. [Your point about what people will buy/market forces etc. still stands. But that is not what I am trying to get at here.]

Finer 'ASL scholarship' (module) on the topic is what is being called for it seems.
Great points, Andy. If you follow the tags to some of the other discussions, you'll note that at least one forum member (aside from Mark) does own some of these modules and was generous enough to post his comments. It just seems rude to keep posting about what morons purchasers would have to be when at least one of us has self-identified as having stepped forward to purchase them. Y'know? I mean, it's okay if they're anonymous screen names, but I've talked on this forum to one of the guys that bought one, and he was very generous with his time. I guess I'm trying to gently steer the conversation away from the insulting tone without preaching about it.

As an aside with regards to the Ortona thread, I started my comments there with "apologies to the original poster but..." and I gave an informed opinion - if you take a look on amazon.com you will see I've even gone so far as to exchange comments with the author of the book in question.

I agree with your good points on scholarship, but it already exists on this forum, at least in part. I've read it. Apparently, the rest of you haven't? I'd recommend it, if not. Either way, I'd keep in mind that there are some of those purchasers among us - very possibly there are more lurking here. Whether they value their investment or not, well, that's to them to decide. I paid good money in the past just to obtain empty ASL boxes I was missing from my collection and am flabbergasted that others simply throw them in the trash. :)
 
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'Ol Fezziwig

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I am in Mark's camp with regard to Marines.....

Peace

Roger
I just read American Commando: Evans Carlson, his WWII Marine Raiders and America's First Special Forces Mission (John Wukovits); Reading particularly the section on The Long Patrol, I have no issue with MARINES having 8 morale-in fact, in actions on TLP, I'd have no issue with MARINE RAIDERS being treated like Finns (self-rally, deploy without leaders).

You also get a particular sense of why MARINES got the 8 ML in the first place: the barbarity of the Japanese to prisoners. One story (from Guadalcanal) tells how they staked a wounded MARINE to the ground and bayoneted him, slashed his face beyond recognition, castrated him and put his genitals in his mouth. No Japanese prisoners were taken after that by the RAIDERS.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Michael,

I think a tangent to Fred's point is akin to you point about Burnie Fox's recommending that book on Ortona, on which you noted a much finer pieces of scholarship. What Fred, I believe, (but I cannot of course speak for him and I may be wrong here) is saying is that he sees and believes there is finer scholarship to be had on how to handle the material WBW has published.

Now you have said you have not seen it, nor to be fair to you have I. But having listed to others comment in a similar line to Fred (EX: Pitman) there seems to be something in what they say. [Your point about what people will buy/market forces etc. still stands. But that is not what I am trying to get at here.]

Finer 'ASL scholarship' (module) on the topic is what is being called for it seems.
Just a follow up; I'm not positive I interpreted your post correctly, so apologies if my reply was out of order. As it turns out, I've been able to obtain one of the modules relatively inexpensively and upon arrival can share any impressions not covered by the others, but I don't think Mark and the other forum posters will leave much to say. I think the revised ebay auctions probably say the most anyway:

Most of the information you need to use these units is included on the counters themselves. The suggestions for play and the descriptions of the units and their special characteristics are not iron clad. I am not a rules "guru." I offer these as guidelines for use in the game. As so well put in many of the older board games, differences of opinion between players can be resolved with a "friendly roll of the die."
:D He's basically saying they are what they are. Anyone familiar with his earlier work in WARGAMER (i.e. the PTO rules that we discussed in one of the earlier threads) should know going into it what they're getting.

I suppose any product has the potential to be a crap shoot. The objections here come, I think, from his marketing, but I maintain that the ASL marketplace is to blame, and I base that on seeing how the militaria market basically devoured itself in the same manner, by inflating prices with hyper-demand for routine items. Perhaps this only proves that the phenomenon is universal.
 

AZslim

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Who the **** is buying this ****?

Does anybody know anybody who has actually bought this, except Pitman for his review?
 

Vinnie

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I should preface this post with the fact I have neither seen nor am likely to see any of these modules.

One aspect I was wondring about. Given the existance of semi-automatic rifles in a "modern" squad against bolt action ones amoungst the NK or VC units I can see the case for a FP of 7,8 or even 9 for marines against 3-5 for the VC/NK. How would CC be handled? Particularly HtH CC would hat not be a factor of men rather than weapons. AS such are we looking at modern ASL having a distance and a close FP factor?
 

Patrocles

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Hi-

Saw this on eBay, and wow, there are people out there who really have money to burn. But to me this sets a bad presidence, who else with a desk top publishing will do the same thing?

http://cgi.ebay.com/GREEN-STEEL-MARINE-ARMOR-IN-WORLD-WAR-II-ASL-Module-1_W0QQitemZ190325916772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c504f0464&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I can see paying 10 bucks for that piece o' crap, but not 300.............:nuts:


Scott
Holy moley! Price up to $330.00USD as of this post.
Praise Allah I am not addicted to buying ASL gear!
:)
 

Pitman

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You also get a particular sense of why MARINES got the 8 ML in the first place: the barbarity of the Japanese to prisoners. One story (from Guadalcanal) tells how they staked a wounded MARINE to the ground and bayoneted him, slashed his face beyond recognition, castrated him and put his genitals in his mouth. No Japanese prisoners were taken after that by the RAIDERS.
I didn't realize it was only Marines who were given barbarous treatment by the Japanese.
 
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