Graveyared Road Hexside

[von Marwitz]

Situation:
During the setup, the Scenario Defender wants to set up a vehicle in the Graveyard hex of Z7.
Normally, Graveyards are not enterable by non-fully tracked vehicles except by Graveyardroad hexside.
Due to the walls and the building in AA7, a halftrack could theoretically only access Z7 via VBM through AA7.




Rules:

B18.4 Movement costs for entry of a graveyard through a graveyard road hexside (a graveyard road is the thin dark brown line passing through every graveyard hex of board 12 except 12W4) are different than those listed on the Movement Costs Chart for roads.

B18.41 Infantry enter a graveyard at a MF cost of one regardless of whether they enter via a graveyard road hexside. All vehicles may enter a graveyard through a graveyard road hexside at a cost of one MP (two MP if BU) and without checking for Bog. Otherwise, only fully-tracked vehicles may enter a graveyard and they must expend half their MP allotment plus check for Bog (D8.21) with a +3 DRM [EXC: motorcycles may enter via a non-road hexside at a cost of four MP, except across a wall or hedge].

B18.42 A graveyard road does not bestow any bonus for movement through a graveyard road hexside (3.4)—either alone or in combination with other road movement.

Index:
Hexside (one of the six lines which combine to form a hex; each hexside also contains two vertices): [Indirect Fire TEM: C1.52] [Inherent Terrain: B.6] [MF cost: A4.131] [Railroad: B32.1] [Road hexside: B3.13] [TEM: B1.16]


Questions:

1. Is the Z7-AA7 hexside a graveyard road hexside?
2. Provided that hex AA7 has enough clearance to allow for VBM, could a non fully-tracked vehicle set up in Z7?
3. If a vehicle is located in VBM with CAFP of Z6-Z7-AA7 with the intention of entering Z7, would it be entering by graveyard road hexside?

Thanks for your help,
von Marwitz

 

[Honosbinda]

Interesting. It looks like whoever drew that was thinking about a path from the church into the graveyard. Of course, there are no graveyard paths in the sacred tome.

1. yes, because it crosses the hexside depiction, unlike that of the bridge on the RB board with similar characteristics
2. Yes, why not?
3. No, I think it can't enter the hex with the 'road' with that CAFP and must have CAFP of AA7/AA8 -Z7 or AA7/Z6 - Z7 that is, pointing towards Z7, not AA7. But perhaps that is what you mean...

 

[Tuomo]

I'll agree with Honosbinda on all counts except his first supposition about the board designer thinking it might be a path, which seems like a stretch. Sure, I guess it would be clearer to have the road point toward the more-common ways for a vehicle to enter the graveyard via VBM along either side of the church, but that seems unnecessary, ugly, and wouldn't even account for the possibility of a vehicle entering the church itself and then entering the graveyard.

So my takeaway is this: think long and hard before you draw graveyard roads

 

[Justiciar]

It is not a path nor a road...it is the tell tale sign of a large funeral procession under muddy conditions.

 

[Eagle4ty]

I believe the the CAFP AA7-Z6-Z7 with the intention to enter Z7 should be adequate, and why not? The hexspine (vertex) of that intersection is considered part of the AA7 hex and hexside and should allow traverse across a road hexside. The only problem I had with your description was the fact you mentioned the AA7 hex last and not first as he would be in that hex, but given the depiction and your description in item 2 there should be little doubt what the CAFP is and what hex it originates from. The only minor question I would have in addition to that is would the vehicle have to spend a turn MP? Personally I do not believe it would be necessary as if the Z7 hex were OG, the vehicle could enter it normally with no additional MP cost (which also led me to believe that the move was possible in the first place). As always JMHO - and probably wrong.

 

[von Marwitz]

3. No, I think it can't enter the hex with the 'road' with that CAFP and must have CAFP of AA7/AA8 -Z7 or AA7/Z6 - Z7 that is, pointing towards Z7, not AA7. But perhaps that is what you mean...

Indeed, pointing towards Z7 on the CAFP is what I meant.

von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

Personally I do not believe it would be necessary as if the Z7 hex were OG, the vehicle could enter it normally with no additional MP cost (which also led me to believe that the move was possible in the first place).

That would also be my take.

von Marwitz

 

[Robin Reeve]

A vehicle in bypass in AA7 with is CAFP at Z6-Z7-AA7 enters Z7 by crossing the AA7-Z7 hexside.
That hexside is a graveyard road hexside, so that road can be used.
I don't think that any VCA change is required (of the graveyard were Open Ground, there would be less doubt that it can be entered - I would think that one could have some problems visualising how the vehicle "skirts" the tombs before entering the road, but that is perhaps trying to apprehend too much detail?).

 

[Tuomo]

Actually, a Graveyard Path would be easy to SSR into existence and would add an interesting flavor. Just say that the Graveyard Road is a Path. Infantry would basically get to use it just like they would use a Graveyard Road, but Vehicles wouldn't. Badda-bing.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

Groan! I just looked at the image in post 1 and the question of being able to set up there and immediately said to myself, "Don't be silly, of course it could.". As for driving into that hex, the only question would be "how many MP? in Bypass and what CAs", not whether.

 

[von Marwitz]

Played the game today.

My opponent insisted, that the setup of a ht in Z7 would be illegal as it could not enter Z7.

His line of argument was that by entering via the vertex (CAFP) the ht would not enter across a (full) graveyard road hexside but only via a vertex that were merely a part of a graveyared road hexside.

He gave analogies of the woods road. If Z7 were woods and the graveyard road depticition a woods road instead and if the ht would be on the same CAFP, it could not enter the woods hex by the road but would have to enter it 'directly'. Which would not be possible with graveyard terrain. In the woods-situation, my argument that the vertices are parts of the hexsides would thus not come to bear, the same would be the case with the graveyard.


I *think* that the woods road case is subtly different to the graveyard road hexside:

B13.41 VEHICLES: Any vehicle may enter a woods hex without using Road or VBM by expending all of its movement capability (other than for starting [D2.12], stopping [D2.13], towing [C10.1] and even if using Minimum Move) to enter that hex and then making a Bog DR [EXC: Motorcycles must be pushed]. Such movement is possible even while moving in Reverse. Vehicles may also use this method to move off a road into the woods portion of their woods-road hex. All MP penalties for entering a hex containing a wreck/vehicle, and/or for changing a VCA across a non-road hexside, are doubled while in a woods hex.

B13.42 FULLY-TRACKED: A fully-tracked vehicle may also enter a woods hex (by other than Bypass, Trail Break, or Road) by expending half of its MP allotment in that hex, but it must check for Bog (D8.21) with a +3 DRM.

B18.41 Infantry enter a graveyard at a MF cost of one regardless of whether they enter via a graveyard road hexside. All vehicles may enter a graveyard through a graveyard road hexside at a cost of one MP (two MP if BU) and without checking for Bog. Otherwise, only fully-tracked vehicles may enter a graveyard and they must expend half their MP allotment plus check for Bog (D8.21) with a +3 DRM [EXC: motorcycles may enter via a non-road hexside at a cost of four MP, except across a wall or hedge].


While in the case of woods, the rules talk explicitely of a Road that has to be used (which I take means across the actual road depiction artwork), in case of the graveyard entry is merely required by graveyard road hexside (with vertices being part of a hexside as per the index), not by graveyard road.

For our game, I used an alternate setup to avoid the issue. Nevertheless, I ask once more for confirmation, if I am correct or my opponent is on this matter.

TIA,
von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

Groan! I just looked at the image in post 1 and the question of being able to set up there and immediately said to myself, "Don't be silly, of course it could.". As for driving into that hex, the only question would be "how many MP? in Bypass and what CAs", not whether.

Hm, that seems easy in my view.

Start in BB7 (1 MP), VBM AA7/AA6 (2 MP), Turn (1 MP) VBM AA7/Z6 (2MP), Z7 (1MP or 1MP if BU per B18.41).

von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

Actually, a Graveyard Path would be easy to SSR into existence and would add an interesting flavor. Just say that the Graveyard Road is a Path. Infantry would basically get to use it just like they would use a Graveyard Road, but Vehicles wouldn't. Badda-bing.

Per B18.4

"Movement costs for entry of a graveyard through a graveyard road hexside (a graveyard road is the thin dark brown line passing through every graveyard hex of board 12 except 12W4) are different than those listed on the Movement Costs Chart for roads."

I believe that every sort of brown line in a graveyard hex is a graveyard road and that there is no such thing as a graveyard path.

von Marwitz

 

[Rooster2k]

why would just running over the graveyard wall be so hard. Can't be that solid.

 

[Robin Reeve]

I don't think that you can enter a hex otherwise than through a hexside.
A bypassing unit always is in the hex of the obstacle bypassed and moving to an ADJACENT hex is always through the common hexside of both hexes.

 

[Tuomo]

Per B18.4

"Movement costs for entry of a graveyard through a graveyard road hexside (a graveyard road is the thin dark brown line passing through every graveyard hex of board 12 except 12W4) are different than those listed on the Movement Costs Chart for roads."

I believe that every sort of brown line in a graveyard hex is a graveyard road and that there is no such thing as a graveyard path.

Per my post, with emphasis added:

Actually, a Graveyard Path would be easy to SSR into existence

 

[Tuomo]

I don't think that you can enter a hex otherwise than through a hexside.

Ooh. Two-dimensional thinking, Robin. That's what got the Bad Guys in one of the Star Trek movies. You can enter a hex vertically in several ways, either from the top or the bottom.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Ooh. Two-dimensional thinking, Robin. That's what got the Bad Guys in one of the Star Trek movies. You can enter a hex vertically in several ways, either from the top or the bottom.

Except by paradrop/glider, you cannot enter a hex from another level, but you can move up or down between Locations within a hex.

 

[Blackcloud6]

Played the game today.

My opponent insisted, that the setup of a ht in Z7 would be illegal as it could not enter Z7.

His line of argument was that by entering via the vertex (CAFP) the ht would not enter across a (full) graveyard road hexside but only via a vertex that were merely a part of a graveyared road hexside.

He's wrong. A vehicle can enter a road hexside... note the word hexside. He's trying too hard; COWTRA negates analogies to similar but unrelated rules.

 

[Will Fleming]

Played the game today.

My opponent insisted, that the setup of a ht in Z7 would be illegal as it could not enter Z7.

His line of argument was that by entering via the vertex (CAFP) the ht would not enter across a (full) graveyard road hexside but only via a vertex that were merely a part of a graveyared road hexside.

He gave analogies of the woods road. If Z7 were woods and the graveyard road depticition a woods road instead and if the ht would be on the same CAFP, it could not enter the woods hex by the road but would have to enter it 'directly'. Which would not be possible with graveyard terrain. In the woods-situation, my argument that the vertices are parts of the hexsides would thus not come to bear, the same would be the case with the graveyard.

For our game, I used an alternate setup to avoid the issue. Nevertheless, I ask once more for confirmation, if I am correct or my opponent is on this matter.

TIA,
von Marwitz

Is there some restriction on having to be able to enter a hex to setup there (provided otherwise legal to setup)? I mean if infantry were on an Island (like say the Japanese on Gavutuu-Tanambogo), that is clearly legal.

Why couldn't a HT setup behind that one-hex circular wall (Board 12?). Probably not the best spot to setup in most situations, but hey.