grain hindrance and tanks

[Anonymous]

I've always been surprised by the hindrance effect of grain (in season). I admit that for infantry the rule is, i feel, ok. But for vehicles even the lowest ones hindrance is excessive.

I can't believe that a PZIV cannot see or fire aganist a T-34 more than 240m or even that 40m of grain difficult the fire of a tank aganist another one. Maybe you don't see all the target, but you could pretty guess where it is.

lower vehicles like universal carriers also can see without hindrance to terrain or other vehicles at their level or higher.

What do you think?

 

[sgtono]

And the world is perfectly flat.

I disagree.

Keith

 

[Pitman]

I think you don't realize how high grain (and other similar crops) can get.

 

[Brian W]

I think you don't realize how high grain (and other similar crops) can get.

Taller than the 4 meters that would be a kingtiger's commander standing in the cupola? And it is always that tall, from June-Sept, in every climate, and every type of "grain"?

And the world is perfectly flat.

No, but all ASL tanks drive in the valleys, never on the hillocks. Thus they never see over grain.

The real answer is that ASL has NOTHING to do with reality. It is a game. Play as closely as you can to the rules and use your imagination to pretend its real.

 

[Robin Reeve]

old Squad leader made a difference between infantry and vehicles in grain... but anyway, one is in an approximation.
grain can be corn (7 feet high) , but also wheat (2,5 feet high)
walls can just be 2 feet or 8 feet high
and so on...

Let's play the game as it is... and if a SSR is needed, let it be as simple as possible... :roll:

 

[sgtono]

When I said

And the world is perfectly flat

. I was being cynical. I disagree that grain should not be a hindrance for vehicles.

So your point exactly

No, but all ASL tanks drive in the valleys, never on the hillocks. Thus they never see over grain.

Keith

 

[Anonymous]

Grain fields and beyond

Well,

I was guessing with a scenario set on Ukrania in summer 1943. All those "grain" field hexes extending all around your tiger tank and you, observing from the cuppola, cannot see-fire anything beyond 240m !!

It's a nonsense.

I now understand why Kurks battle was not won....the T-34's could aproach to kill distance undisturbed.

So in plannig with an scenario-scenarios set on those fields you have to change the rule to conform to the "real thing".

This happens just the same in Normandy. Most of the battlefields were grain fields and the rule just don't work. Goodwood operation would have been pretty different with ASL grain rules....

Yes, I know that ASL is a game and the rules just a model, but in this model I think that grainfields require a change.

No one can believe that ALLl grain fields are higher than a man during ALL the season. Just a few of them and just for a few weeks. So in fact the rule should be the exception.


Yes, also hexes are a bit "oversized" .

Eduard

 

[Robin Reeve]

You could declare "grain" as "scrub" . OK for Infantry concealment, but otherwise no hindrance... :wink:

 

[UXB]

This is already in the ASLRB v2

The situations described are already in the ASLRB v2.
Index. Page 13: "House Rules (any mutually agreed upon method for speeding up play, or adjusting the official rules for a particular group's own
enjoyment or convenience): A.9 [Concealment: A12.16]"

So when you guys play a Kursk scenario at my house, My T-34's treat
any number of grain hindrances as a +1 LV Hindrance, Your Panzers
treat grain as a Heavy Mist.
;-)

I think this is part of the ASL as system issue. If a rule doesn't seem
consistent, then design your own scenario with a SSR that modifies the rules.

Alternately, play test existing scenarios with your modification with your
opponents and agree on ASLRBv2 House Rules.

 

[Robin Reeve]

... and has one ever tried to simulate devastating effects of hay-fever upon CE AFVs in grain? :twisted: