GLORY & GRIEF ASL Vietnam Variant? Anyone see this on eBay?

Michael Dorosh

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Interesting. What the heck was "Dated Japanese Play" about?
It was a rule stating that after 1943, all ordnance and AFVs had their BD (breakdown - odd choice of abbreviation) numbers increased by 1. Didn't read through this until you asked. This does seem chrome-y, because the rationale is that Japanese soldiers were using the same weapons from 1941 or earlier (MGs exempted). Excessive Speed Breakdown (which he does not abbreviate as ESB, but as BD also) is also increased.

Oh, his name was golden, all right -- just like Rune's... and IIRC I have a general idea what you think of his golden aura. :devious:

Both of them had the same sort of cult-like following. :hail::hail:
That's always a turn-off for me.

What you said about the SPR design pretty much sums up all WBW's designs, from my POV -- mostly fantasy, rave reviews, fun, loosely inspired. I wasn't impressed, but then, I wasn't really the target audience.
I agree with you about cult followings - Franko had the same aura in the CM world. Can't say I agreed as I never played his stuff. "Tank Warning" was supposed to be quite good. I hated the way he posted on the forums. I'M BACK AND I'M BETTER THAN EVER in the subject heading in all caps. Some guys really played into that. There were others, whose name I can't even remember - posting dreck like OMFG MASS-KILLING AT DUBRONOVISKOLAV NOW AT THE SCENARIO DEPOT!!!! posted like it was the second coming. Like, give it a rest, did you even playtest it? "OMFG". What is this, a porn film?

Franko's "Iron Man" rules had a big following too, which were unique - basically he worked out a system where you played CM from camera angle 1 the whole game. Interesting and challenging (tough to really do since all the terrain was identical to each other, being the same bitmaps) and you had to do it on the "honour" system if PBEMing, but he was remembered for that as well. I remembered him for basically bragging about ripping James Coburn off on his death bed. I posted about how some guy was on ebay with one of those Dragon 12" action figures done in the likeness of Sergeant Steiner, and the guy selling it had gone in to visit Coburn in the hospital and gotten autographs on two or three boxed action figures, and while Coburn was still ill was selling them for an obscene amount of money. Coburn didn't know they were being sold when he signed them, and I asked the seller, IIRC, if any of the money was going back to the family or to charity, answer was no. Writing it now, it doesn't seem so heinous, but at the time it seemed kind of dastardly that he would elicit autographs from a dying man just to turn around and sell them for a huge profit. Anyway, I posted my reaction to this at BFC and Franko piped up that he "had to have one" and immediately went out and started bidding on one, which went up into the thousands of dollars. I forget if he prevailed, but I was not a fan after that...
 
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Michael Dorosh

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Is this the 'Wild Bill' that was some sort of overseer at Victory Games?
I'm not familiar enough with his whole career, which I get the feeling goes back a long ways - but I've never connected his name with VG before. Dunno. I note that some of the VG staffers are posting at BGG occasionally however. A google search yielded me nothing conclusive one way or another. It doesn't ring a bell though.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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OMG, ROFLMAO! Funniest thing I've read on GS today.
I figured you would get the irony of this, Fred, given our past relationship. I refer of course to this post and this one where you begged me to put you on Ignore, and finally this pronouniciamento proclaiming me to be on your Ignore list. If you don't mind my asking, what made you change your mind? Since I'm obviously back in your good graces, well, let me know what I did so I can repeat such good behaviour in the future and mend fences with others as well.
 

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Since I'm obviously back in your good graces, well, let me know what I did so I can repeat such good behaviour in the future and mend fences with others as well.
Actually, somebody told me about the flames you fired at Mark on Mark's call for help thread and, like passing a train wreck, I just had to look. Advice for good behavior that will put you in my good graces is cease doing something like you did with Mark. If anything you are about post hints at attacking or being caustic, save and read it later and see if you still want to post it. take the highroad with folks you've had issues with (like you just did in the post above with me) and extend goodness. Repair fences even if you may feel you are not the one who tore it down, and things will go better. Start with Mark...
 

Michael Dorosh

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More on Wild Bill Wilder.

Wild Bill Wilder has announced his retirement from the Raiders. This will mean that the name Wild Bill's Raiders will also retire. But all the different Raider sites will continue and they are all to be found in the Featured Sites section of the Wargamer Game Section and Sites.

The Raiders were founded in October 1997 and since then they have produced over a 1,000 scenarios and campaigns. Also they have taken part in the beta testing of 12 games. Wild Bill has played a large part in mentoring many of the designers and writers that are active in the gaming community today. Bill has not retired fully and his scenarios will continue to appear and his excellent articles will flow from his pen until the day he drops.

The sites are Boots n Tracks(Combat Mission), Combat Heavy (Steel Beasts), Maruader's Arsenal Team (SPWAW) and TF Echo Four (HPS Squad Battles).
I think there is always a correlation between those who point to quantity, and perceptions of quality, that may transcend the incidental. But maybe that's me - any thoughts, John?
 

bellnote88

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I remembered him for basically bragging about ripping James Coburn off on his death bed. I posted about how some guy was on ebay with one of those Dragon 12" action figures done in the likeness of Sergeant Steiner, and the guy selling it had gone in to visit Coburn in the hospital and gotten autographs on two or three boxed action figures, and while Coburn was still ill was selling them for an obscene amount of money. Coburn didn't know they were being sold when he signed them, and I asked the seller, IIRC, if any of the money was going back to the family or to charity, answer was no. Writing it now, it doesn't seem so heinous, but at the time it seemed kind of dastardly that he would elicit autographs from a dying man just to turn around and sell them for a huge profit.
I think your first instincts were correct - that was despicable, if it really happened. Coburn was plagued with arthritis for many years, but it was a heart attack that killed him - he was in his home at the time. According to my sources the only hospital visits of any length were for the arthritis - a condition that finally responded to medication.

So which is worse, to actually do something like that and brag about it, or to fabricate it and brag about it?
 

Michael Dorosh

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I think your first instincts were correct - that was despicable, if it really happened. Coburn was plagued with arthritis for many years, but it was a heart attack that killed him - he was in his home at the time. According to my sources the only hospital visits of any length were for the arthritis - a condition that finally responded to medication.

So which is worse, to actually do something like that and brag about it, or to fabricate it and brag about it?
It was a few years back, so my memory is hazy - now that you mention it, if he was at home in his final weeks, that is plausible too.
 

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I agree with you about cult followings - Franko had the same aura in the CM world. Can't say I agreed as I never played his stuff. "Tank Warning" was supposed to be quite good. I hated the way he posted on the forums. I'M BACK AND I'M BETTER THAN EVER in the subject heading in all caps.
Huh. Franko seemed to be mostly done by the time I came along, so my opinion of him was based totally on his work. That work struck me as very authentic, so my opinion of him was correspondingly high. Maybe just as well I never interacted with him "live and in the flesh", so to speak. (Er, in the silicon? You know what I mean...)

Think I'll take the discussion of "Iron Man" to the CM sub-forum, as it's even more off-topic than the above comment. :shy:


John
 

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I think there is always a correlation between those who point to quantity, and perceptions of quality, that may transcend the incidental. But maybe that's me - any thoughts, John?
I'm afraid that was one of your more opaque statements, so I'm honestly not entirely sure what you're driving at.


John
 

Michael Dorosh

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I'm afraid that was one of your more opaque statements, so I'm honestly not entirely sure what you're driving at.

John
I mean, if a scenario design group puts out 1000 different scenarios, it's not inconceivable that they're all really high quality.

If that same group advertises the fact that they put out 1000 different scenarios - I mean, they actually mention the number, and the number itself is the talking point - it kind of suggests to me that the quality is not something worth talking about.

Here's an example. If I say "Pete Shelling" what comes to mind?

I think "Urban Guerrillas" comes most immediatly to mind, or the Kursk mini-CG. I've never, ever seen him or anyone else say in reference to him "Shelling has 85.4 scenarios in print" or anything of that nature.

Ditto, Franko was never the dude who did 50 or 300 CM scenarios, he was always the dude who did Tank Warning or the dude who did the Iron Man rules.

After 1000 scenarios, you would think that a scenario design group would have at least one or two titles that really stood out, which they would identify with.

This might be worth a thread of its own - is identification with a single scenario a mark of doom, like like type casting for an actor, or is it actually a sign that you "made it"?
 

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It was a few years back, so my memory is hazy - now that you mention it, if he was at home in his final weeks, that is plausible too.
I should have given more detail. He was playing the flute when the heart attack hit on Nov. 17, 2002, and died Nov. 18, 2002. I don't have the intimate details on his condition after the coronary, so I don't know if he was conscious during the last few hours of his life. So either there was a very small window or none at all.

Sounds like a fish story to me. But whatever...:smoke:
 

jwb3

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I mean, if a scenario design group puts out 1000 different scenarios, it's not inconceivable that they're all really high quality.

If that same group advertises the fact that they put out 1000 different scenarios - I mean, they actually mention the number, and the number itself is the talking point - it kind of suggests to me that the quality is not something worth talking about.
Yeah, I tend to agree with this. Mozart was a frickin' genius, but you don't hear much about him tooting his own horn. Or as an example the other way, in the CM world, a certain "triple ladder leader" comes to mind...

The case of WBW and his Raiders may be a different matter, though; first, the passage was from a "retirement notice" (which tend to be fascinated by big numbers) and second, the notice was targeted at players of a number of different games, all of which they were involved with. Say WBW was really well known for a single scenario in the CM world... and a single one in the Steel Panthers world... and a third one in the Steel Beasts world. There's no reason to assume the players of CM would ever have heard of the other two scenarios, and so on; some players will cross over, but many will not. So if the message listed his "greatest hits", 2/3 of them would be totally unknown to any given reader. Instead, it makes sense to just deal in generalities, the additive efforts of all those worlds combined.

This might be worth a thread of its own - is identification with a single scenario a mark of doom, like like type casting for an actor, or is it actually a sign that you "made it"?
I don't think it's anything like type-casting, but there are certainly some one-hit wonders out there. I think you know the designers who have truly "made it" by the fact that the community immediately associates their names with at least two scenarios or products. (Pete obviously qualifies!)


John
 

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Anyone or group that designs 1000+ games/scenarios had better hit on the odd great, otherwise they woud have no outlet. You get remembered for the greats and the dogs, no one remembers the not bads.

Life eh?
 

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Here's an example. If I say "Pete Shelling" what comes to mind?

I think "Urban Guerrillas" comes most immediatly to mind, or the Kursk mini-CG. I've never, ever seen him or anyone else say in reference to him "Shelling has 85.4 scenarios in print" or anything of that nature.

This might be worth a thread of its own - is identification with a single scenario a mark of doom, like like type casting for an actor, or is it actually a sign that you "made it"?
Both.

It's good to be more often associated with the successes. However, even then I sometimes worry that following work does not compare favorably with fans, even if there is no so such intention from a design perspective.
 

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Both.

It's good to be more often associated with the successes. However, even then I sometimes worry that following work does not compare favorably with fans, even if there is no so such intention from a design perspective.
Well, WW, as long as you have a back-up plan, you'll be fine. :p
 

Michael Dorosh

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Both.

It's good to be more often associated with the successes. However, even then I sometimes worry that following work does not compare favorably with fans, even if there is no so such intention from a design perspective.
A reasonable response. A publisher friend of mine once said - he's an author as well - that he only writes and publishes books that he would want to read. He doesn't try and bother figuring out what other people would like. It will drive a person nuts in the end, and really - you can't do it. You'll almost always be wrong.

Ask the guy who invented the Edsel. :)
 

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$160.00 for four scenarios, an overlay and half a counter sheet. I'm in the wrong business.

Bill
 
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$160.00 for four scenarios, an overlay and half a counter sheet. I'm in the wrong business.

Bill
Wrong business?:hmmm: How many of those would you need to sell every month to pay the mortgage, feed the family...:p

Perspective is fun
a. $160 vs. four scenarios, an overlay and half a counter sheet :eek:
b. $160 vs. monthly expenses :clown:
 
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