GLORY & GRIEF 2 ASL Vietnam Variant Module TWO

peterk1

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You think?

It appears illegal. He's using the term ASL in his ads without permission (I presume), to make money, and all those crazy counters is doing nothing to make ASL look good. MMP can nail them if they want to IMHO and they'll be spending all that cash on a lawyer. The one thing that makes it borderline is them saying you need the actual rulebook to play.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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You think?

It's pretty illegal. He's using the term ASL in his ads without permission (I presume), to make money, and all those crazy counters is doing nothing to make ASL look good. MMP can nail them if they want to IMHO and they'll be spending all that cash on a lawyer. The one thing that makes it borderline is they saying you need the actual rulebook to play.
There should be a disclaimer that it isn't an official Hasbro or MMP product - I didn't look at the auction just now to see if it is or isn't there - but there is nothing stopping them from using the words Advanced Squad Leader AFAIK. I thought Critical Hit proved that in their court case? My version of Stonne, the latest one, has ASLRB right on the cover sheet, so I presume it is not an issue.
 

peterk1

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Interesting....

I thought they could be more aggressive copyright-wise. I still remember when all those CM versions of ASL scenarios had to be taken down.

I don't know...if vendors start selling below standard products that have MY product's name on the cover, I wouldn't be too, too happy.
 

Michael Dorosh

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Interesting....

I thought they could be more aggressive copyright-wise. I still remember when all those CM versions of ASL scenarios had to be taken down.

I don't know...if vendors start selling below standard products that have MY product's name on the cover, I wouldn't be too, too happy.
Well, it could be a case of live and let live with CH, too, I have no inside information. Hasbro has deeper pockets than MMP, I am sure. Perhaps I spoke too soon. I agree with your opening statement. "Interesting." :D
 

Gunner Scott

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uh oh, I smell a copyright flame war brewing..................with the little CPL leading the way



Wheres the popcorn:nuts:


Scott
 

Patrocles

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King Billy

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How long do you think before Pitman posts a review on his web-site?

Bill
 

Michael Dorosh

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How long do you think before Pitman posts a review on his web-site?

Bill
He'd be doing us a service if he did. I hope he's smart enough to arrange a side-purchase for less than extortion prices though. He seems reasonably well connected that way.

I'd take what he said about the product with a grain of salt - like with any reviewer - but I'd be interested in an in-depth opinion by anyone who actually owns this.
 

olli

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Still cheaper than some of the ToT stuff that appears on e-bay
 

Michael Dorosh

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Still cheaper than some of the ToT stuff that appears on e-bay
The point being that this Vietnam ASL variant isn't some rare, out of print thing, but a first-run item that will be regularly available.
 

Buck K

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The point being that this Vietnam ASL variant isn't some rare, out of print thing, but a first-run item that will be regularly available.
I am not sure what point you are making. There seems to be an odd reaction/obsession to someone who has made a homemade ASL kit, and puts it together at home once in a while and sells to anyone who wants it? It's not "extortion prices", as you stated. This is not making anyone rich. If so there would more people doing it!! A few houndred dollars at 8 hours to put together, not to mention design time doesn't sound like the weekend job I've been waiting for?!?! The people buying are not necessarily "fools" as you stated, just people with excess money to spend on ASL esoteria. From what we know these will be collectibles very soon, since it doesn't seem the putting them together mechanics will facilitate hundreds of copies. Personally I would love to have a copy and I hope a few more are made and are auctioned when I have a couple hundred dollars to spend on ASLoteria.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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I am not sure what point you are making. There seems to be an odd reaction/obsession to someone who has made a homemade ASL kit, and puts it together at home once in a while and sells to anyone who wants it? It's not extortion, as you stated.
I stated it was extortion? That's incorrect. In fact, I congratulated the seller just a few posts further up.

This is not making anyone rich.
Quite. Even MMP is not getting rich.

If so there would more people doing it!! A few houndred dollars at 8 hours to put together, not to mention design time doesn't sound like the weekend job I've been waiting for?!?! The people buying are not necessarily "fools" as you stated, just people with excess money to spend on ASL esoteria.
I don't know another word for anyone who pays 300 dollars for something they could get for 50 with a little patience or even a simple email.

From what we know these will be collectibles very soon, since it doesn't seem the putting them together mechanics will facilitate hundreds of copies. Personally I would love to have a copy and I hope a few more are made and are auctioned when I have a couple hundred dollars to spend on ASLoteria.
Doesn't the fact that only a handful may be available in total indicate the relative value of this product? I mean think about it - if this was the sliced bread of ASL variants, wouldn't a bonafide publisher be the one cranking these out with more regularity? I'm not going to pass judgment without having seen them, but the fear of not having one is not only hurting you but pretty much driving up the price for anyone else who wants one at a reasonable price. Honestly, people are such sheep.

And it isn't this product that drives my comments, it's what I've seen done to other collecting communities where prices are now through the roof and likely to stay that way, and have been put that way mostly by uninformed dilettantes who refuse to do a little homework and just bid, bid, bid because they have deep pockets and thought nothing of paying twice or four times the expected market rate of non-rare stuff, so often, that it became the standard price when the next item went up for bids. Eventually all the prices became inflated for everyone, and stayed that way.

Maybe Billy is right and we really do need to see Mark lambaste this product on his website; people are buying it without knowing a single thing about it other than the names of the scenarios, the name of the developer, and what the counters look like. Of course, that wouldn't stop those who don't know about his sight anyway, or stop the rabid collectors. After all, some dude paid 30 dollars to me on ebay for Portal's HIP notes for an ASL scenario we played once.

Was that guy a fool too?

WBRP, you still have my HIP notes?
 

hershmeister

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but what if he says its really really good? watch the price quadruple!

and Mark would haveone of only two copies! :)
 

Michael Dorosh

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but what if he says its really really good?
It's a definite possibility; either way, I'm eager to see anyone's opinion, as long as it is objective. And once that has happened, you're right if you're suggesting it will definitely be interesting to see what happens to the price of future auctions.
 

dreenstra

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It's a definite possibility; either way, I'm eager to see anyone's opinion, as long as it is objective. And once that has happened, you're right if you're suggesting it will definitely be interesting to see what happens to the price of future auctions.
If I paid $333 for something that turned out to be a handmade piece of crap, the last thing my opinion would be is objective...

Dave
 

Jason Cameron

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Has anyone really seen it? Is it any good? I find it a little hard to grasp as so many rules would have to be introduced (airpower, special forces, the fact that the US strategy wasn't based on taking terrain or even destroying the enemy).
 

Michael Dorosh

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so many rules would have to be introduced (airpower, special forces, the fact that the US strategy wasn't based on taking terrain or even destroying the enemy).
There were a great variety of tactical battles at all stages of the war, in which small unit actions took place which would be appropriate for depiction in ASL. One simply needs to research them. I designed one for Frank's Modern ASL group, for example. There is nothing in appropriate about combat in the Vietnam War that excludes its portrayal by an ASL module.

I'd be interested in seeing this product or details of it as well, though.
 

peterk1

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I have a bit of a problem with the huge morale on the US counters. It's what...9?

That's implying that the Vietnam soldiers were somehow far braver than the WWII guys and didn't break under similar volumes of fire, which is silly.

What I feel happened is the designer's thought process went something like....

1. Vietnam squad has way more fire power than WWII squad so I gotta bump those guys up by 50%.
2. Playtests and decides it's not realistic/fun because everyone is breaking like crazy and then bumps up the morale to compensate.

I don't know....all you're going to do is increase the probability of extreme results with super high FP and super high morale. Without more to go on, it's sounding a little like the work of someone who hasn't played a whole lot of ASL (and has played a whole lot of Steel Panthers).
 
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