Getting a MG from a Jeep

Blackcloud6

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So how do you get a dm HMG out of a Jeep that has no Passengers? Do you send up a MMC and it has to load to become a passenger, then recover the HMG and then unload again? If so, the ASL designers had never seen a Jeep before. :D
 

Eagle4ty

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So how do you get a dm HMG out of a Jeep that has no Passengers? Do you send up a MMC and it has to load to become a passenger, then recover the HMG and then unload again? If so, the ASL designers had never seen a Jeep before. :D
Why certainly! They have to look under the seat to find the T&E mechanism, the ammo cans, spare barrel, etc.-and you know what a talker the driver is-ya think he'd lend a hand? NO-he delivers, not installs! Just want's to bum a butt-and a light too!:mad:
 

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The guy was a supply sergeant and he "ain't got NO intention" to go anywhere near the front line! Ya wanted it, there it is, Don't want it? Send it back! This here ain't no Burger King! Ya don't get it your way!
 

bprobst

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This one is an unarmed jeep carry a DM HMG.
Fortunately it's not something you'll ever need to worry about. D6.4 prohibits the retention of unpossessed SW on a vehicle unless that vehicle is either a halftrack or a Carrier. Some individual vehicles are granted an exception to this rule via their Chapter H note, but unless I'm missing something, jeeps (nor any other type of standard "truck") get no such exception.

Your supply sergeant put the MG on the back seat, where it promptly fell to the floor, rolled under the seat, and was never seen again.

And before you say it: yes, that does seem a staggeringly stupid rule.
 

jrv

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And before you say it: yes, that does seem a staggeringly stupid rule.
As I posted in another thread, I believe the rule was created to prevent player sleaze, just as UUVs have no TEM or hindrance until they die. ASL players play dirty unless the rules force them to play nice.

JR
 

Jazz

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As I posted in another thread, I believe the rule was created to prevent player sleaze, just as UUVs have no TEM or hindrance until they die. ASL players play dirty unless the rules force them to play nice.

JR
"Dirty" is such a harsh and judgmental term......."gamey" seems closer to the spirit?
 

Blackcloud6

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Fortunately it's not something you'll ever need to worry about. D6.4 prohibits the retention of unpossessed SW on a vehicle unless that vehicle is either a halftrack or a Carrier. Some individual vehicles are granted an exception to this rule via their Chapter H note, but unless I'm missing something, jeeps (nor any other type of standard "truck") get no such exception.

Your supply sergeant put the MG on the back seat, where it promptly fell to the floor, rolled under the seat, and was never seen again.

And before you say it: yes, that does seem a staggeringly stupid rule.
The Scenario is 191 Buchholz Station which gives you a Jeep and a dm HMG with an SSR that says: "The dm .50-Cal HMG must set up in the jeep."

So then the SSR overrides the provision in 6.4 that you state due to the RB definition of SSR which states "Always takes precedence over Game System Rules." So the Supply Sergeant yells: "hey, get over here and take this damn M2 out of my Jeep already so I can get back to the rear!"
 

Blackcloud6

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This whole thread shows the sometimes disconnect ASL has with reality either due to poor rules writing, misunderstanding reality or trying to hard to fixed perceived gameyness. here you have a rules system that has pages of rules on how to handle the rare use of landing craft (probably the most overwritten rules in the whole system) in order to attempt all the possible reality situations of such craft in combat but yet the rules-writers did not grasps the reality that a few guys can simply walk up to a jeep and simple reach in it to pull out anything they want. There is no reason that trucks and jeeps cannot carry weapons up to guys in combat so the mentioned provision of D6.4 IS a stupid rule. And for very small vehicles like jeeps, D6.4 could have said, "MMCs can recover items such as SW without having to become PRC in the normal manner of SW recover, see A4.44." This whole thing makes me wonder if the guys who wrote thee rules ever had seen or touched a jeep, or an M2 .50 Cal HMG before writing the rules. Sometimes ASL just makes you scratch your head.
 

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More than Panjis?
What's not to understand about sticks poked in the ground?
Willie: "Hey Joe, lookie thar! Them's a buch of pokey thingies stuck in the ground!" Joe: "We dasn't go there! I'll have to take a task check!" Willie: "K-mon, we got the moronale ta just waltz thru them thar things!" Joe: "OK, but if we'uns get stuck atop of them, I cain't use this here M1919-AND, you gatta read the rules and regs=ever'tings by the book ya know!"
 

bprobst

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As I posted in another thread, I believe the rule was created to prevent player sleaze, just as UUVs have no TEM or hindrance until they die. ASL players play dirty unless the rules force them to play nice.
And as I replied in that other thread, the supposed sleaze being prevented is neither sleazy (or even "gamey") nor, in most cases, all that useful (because of the afore-mentioned difficulties involved in recovering the weapon from the vehicle). A rule that prevents you from doing something that is not unrealistic and only rarely useful is not a rule worth the effort of printing, i.e., "stupid".

The Scenario is 191 Buchholz Station which gives you a Jeep and a dm HMG with an SSR that says: "The dm .50-Cal HMG must set up in the jeep."

So then the SSR overrides the provision in 6.4 that you state due to the RB definition of SSR which states "Always takes precedence over Game System Rules."
Yes, you're quite correct. It would have been nice if the SSR included a reference to D6.4 being NA in this case. (And to what extent is it NA? What if I recover the dm MG from the jeep and then, later, put it back? Is D6.4 nullified just for setup or for the entire scenario? Is it only nullified for that vehicle or for all vehicles in the scenario? Dollars to donuts that the scenario designer was actually completely unaware of the implications of D6.4!)

This whole thread shows the sometimes disconnect ASL has with reality either due to poor rules writing
No, not really. Chapter D was written by Don Greenwood, who had a, uh, liberal approach to rules writing (for evidence, see Chapter E), while Chapter G was written by Bob McNamara, who strongly believed in crossing every "t" and dotting every "i". Yes, Chapter G is much more verbose, and over two decades has shown to have needed hardly any errata at all; while there are still holes in Chapters A-E awaiting filling. I know which approach I prefer!

As for the "accessibility" of jeeps vs. trucks etc., while I understand your point, I'd prefer a consistent approach to the rules. The alternative is lots of special exceptions. Then you inevitably get arguments from people who say "why does the EXC apply to this and not to that?". God knows it's an argument I've made myself in other contexts! Yes, the rules could be written to identify "easily-accessible vehicles" vs. "ordinary" ones; or should it be "normally-accessible vehicles" vs. "difficult" ones? Where do you end up drawing the line? In these cases I usually prefer simple/consistent vs. obsessively realistic.

... and BTW a m2 .50 Cal HMG is not going to "roll under the seat" of jeep.
It does if the rules say it does. Or would you prefer that it evaporates on exposure to sunlight? Pick your own poison, you have to swallow it regardless.
 
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bprobst

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For the record, I'd prefer that the D6.4 restriction apply not just to "halftracks and Carriers" but rather any vehicle with sufficient Passenger PP available -- i.e., the SW must be IN the vehicle, not ON it (i.e., not left behind by a Rider). The really difficult thing about the rule-as-written is the reliance on the chassis of the vehicle as the determining point, as if halftracks were never unarmoured (of course Chapter H contains numerous examples of same, which would never be used for "stupid combat tricks" any more than a plain old truck would be). The one that particularly sticks in my craw is the Lloyd Carrier, a vehicle specifically designed for ferrying weapons to troops! -- but nope, it's not a "Carrier", so don't expect to load any weapons into it!
 
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