German entry in 192, "Shoot-N-Scoot"

GeorgeBates

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His royal badness, Ivan "The Terrible" Kent and I are off to a jaw-dropping start after one of his Mark V's caught an APCR round under the mantlet and burned on entry. We found ourselves a bit baffled as to how his infantry should come on board, however. The OB reads, "... enter on Turn 1 along the east edge, each unit having already expended 1/2 (FRU) of its MF/MP allotment..." We agreed that since the MF allotment does not include any double-time bonus, MMC should have 2 MF available, a lone SMC 3MF, and MMC moving with a leader also 3MF. But then the questions set in:
  1. If infantry enter on a road hex, and move along contiguous road hexes for the remainder of their movement allotment do they receive the road bonus?
  2. How many additional MF would be received for declaring double-time at the beginning of a unit's MPh? How many if declared after MF have been spent?
  3. If a unit spent 2 MF to enter during the AdvPh, would the unit be marked CX?

Contrast this language with wording used in some other scenarios, "enter on Turn 1 ... having already spent 2 MF." In this case, are 2 MF simply subtracted from however many MF the unit is able to and chooses to spend? For example, if a leader accompanies an MMC to enter at double-time on a road hex and move entirely along that road to receive the road bonus, may they move 7 hexes (9MF - 2 MF = 7 @ 1MF/hex)?
 

Pyth

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My way of looking at this (caveat lector) I think your question highlights the wisdom of 2MF less vs. 1/2 FRU... I don't think there's anywhere in the RB to go to for a ruling on an SSR. So the only really authoritative voice would be the scenario designer (who may well be contactable). Other than that I think it's community practice -- I would say, above all negotiate it with opp. Reasonable, to me, would be:

1. Road bonus allowed (it is applied at the end of movement, after 1/2ing took place)
2. Early double time 1/2'd: +1. Late double time: + 1 (it came after halving, so same logic as road). Cx is +1 early or late.
3. A real poser. But I would be inclined to allow Aph its full allotment. (as if unit had moved it's 1/2 MF offboard to that position, and then exerted full Advance... just the way the units that have made it onboard with their 1/2MF are allowed full advance allotment in the Aph).

(There are Perry Sez for specific scenarios.... have you checked there?)

Pete Shelling design. No errata listed at Scenario Archive. I'm as curious as you about the answers to this.
 
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buser333

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His royal badness, Ivan "The Terrible" Kent and I are off to a jaw-dropping start after one of his Mark V's caught an APCR round under the mantlet and burned on entry. We found ourselves a bit baffled as to how his infantry should come on board, however. The OB reads, "... enter on Turn 1 along the east edge, each unit having already expended 1/2 (FRU) of its MF/MP allotment..." We agreed that since the MF allotment does not include any double-time bonus, MMC should have 2 MF available, a lone SMC 3MF, and MMC moving with a leader also 3MF. But then the questions set in:
  1. If infantry enter on a road hex, and move along contiguous road hexes for the remainder of their movement allotment do they receive the road bonus?
  2. How many additional MF would be received for declaring double-time at the beginning of a unit's MPh? How many if declared after MF have been spent?
  3. If a unit spent 2 MF to enter during the AdvPh, would the unit be marked CX?

Contrast this language with wording used in some other scenarios, "enter on Turn 1 ... having already spent 2 MF." In this case, are 2 MF simply subtracted from however many MF the unit is able to and chooses to spend? For example, if a leader accompanies an MMC to enter at double-time on a road hex and move entirely along that road to receive the road bonus, may they move 7 hexes (9MF - 2 MF = 7 @ 1MF/hex)?
MF/MP Allotment is not defined, but A4.11 says "Every Good Order MMC has a four MF alloment..."

With that being said my answers to your questions are:
1) Yes
2) assuming they are not burdened by extra PP, 2 and 1.
3) Yes per wording of A4.72 regarding MF allotment.
 

Michael R

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  1. If infantry enter on a road hex, and move along contiguous road hexes for the remainder of their movement allotment do they receive the road bonus?
  2. How many additional MF would be received for declaring double-time at the beginning of a unit's MPh? How many if declared after MF have been spent?
  3. If a unit spent 2 MF to enter during the AdvPh, would the unit be marked CX?
My playing of this had the following assumptions to your questions:

1 Yes
2 One. One.
3 No
 

Eagle4ty

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I've played this several times and have talked to Pete about it once and IIRC Michael has is right. The big two Q's here are declaring Double Time at the beginning of the MPh (and it makes common sense to impose a x1/2 MF penalty on the entire movement availability at that time), and the APh Q (of which the answer was "No penalty", but I can't remember the reason).
 

buser333

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I've played this several times and have talked to Pete about it once and IIRC Michael has is right. The big two Q's here are declaring Double Time at the beginning of the MPh (and it makes common sense to impose a x1/2 MF penalty on the entire movement availability at that time), and the APh Q (of which the answer was "No penalty", but I can't remember the reason).
This is very poorly written then and, IMHO, contrary to the wording of the rules.
 

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Perhaps Pete will stop by and share his thoughts.
Thanks fellas.
well this was 20 or so years ago- and if you look at ASL language of the time. it was hardly as refined as it is today. So it's hard to remember what I originally 'intended' (or any playtesters might have worked up from that, what ever it was.)

But I think. Michael's answers above would likely come the closest, and are collectively the least problematic.

So barring anything from Perry or some other official authority - go with that. :cool:
 

GeorgeBates

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well this was 20 or so years ago- and if you look at ASL language of the time. it was hardly as refined as it is today. So it's hard to remember what I originally 'intended' (or any playtesters might have worked up from that, what ever it was.)

But I think. Michael's answers above would likely come the closest, and are collectively the least problematic.

So barring anything from Perry or some other official authority - go with that. :cool:
Thanks, Pete. I checked in the latest Q&A compilation, and it appears this has never come up, so I'll poke a Perry Sez mail to the Roolz Squad so we can get something on the record.
 

GeorgeBates

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Lord Cocke, Keeper Of The Roolz Flame, did not parry my question:

-------- Original message --------
Date: 5/14/18 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: asl_qa att multimanpublishing dott com

Subject: German entry in 192, "Shoot-N-Scoot"


The German OB instructions reads "... enter on Turn 1 along the east edge, each unit having already expended 1/2 (FRU) of its MF/MP allotment..." My opponent and I agreed that since the MF allotment does not include any double-time bonus, MMC should have 2 MF available, a lone SMC 3MF, and MMC moving with a leader also 3MF. But then the questions set in:

1. If infantry enter on a road hex, and move along contiguous road hexes for the remainder of their movement allotment do they receive the road bonus?

2. How many additional MF would be received for declaring double-time at the beginning of a unit's MPh? How many if declared after MF have been spent?

3. If a unit spent 2 MF to enter during the AdvPh, would the unit be marked CX?

From: asl_qa att multimanpublishing dott com
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 11:53 PM
Subject: A to Q on German entry in 192, "Shoot-N-Scoot"

1. Yes.

2. 2;1.

3. No.





....Perry

MMP
 
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