Geoboards

Petros

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
109
Reaction score
2
Location
Vista California
Country
llUnited States
The subject of terrain and geoboards is always of interest to me; moreso it’s my obsession. :nuts: So, rather than interrupt the good HoB thread on the same subject (HoB Boards), I will start my own new one. :p (hi Chas!) Incidentally, I am not part of MMP but rather produce boards exclusively for them, though I am not their sole provider of board art (I didn’t produce Riley’s Road, Edson Ridge, and the ASLSK1 boards).

My opinion about ASL, MMP, and new boards goes like this:
1) Unmounted boards are a good thing on the whole, in spite of their comparative inferiority to mounted boards because they are much more cost effective to produce. period
2) Given that the cost factor is minimized, and for other good reasons (such as that there are few other potential core components left undone) MMP should produce more geoboards.
3) There are many new kinds and layouts of geoboards yet done.
4) Delivering new unmounted geoboards in the form of either AP’s or in Journals is a good thing too – the delivery method is not critical unless the end product will not sell.
5) Overlays: though a good idea in my humble opinion, players shun using them. Hence, don’t produce them.
6) More official geoboards are apparently on their way to you via AP’s (3 in total planned – each with 2 new boards I’ve produced). Timing depends upon scenario development which is in progress (I’ve seen some of the scenarios by Pete Shelling and Ian Daglish and they’re cool). :thumup:
7) Hopefully there’s more to come. Right now, I’m at work making 2 new geoboards yet to be shown to MMP. By far they are – to me anyway, the most versatile 2 boards I’ve ever done and are ‘multi-geomorphic’*, Ukrainian looking.
8) And heaven help me for saying this, but I like hand-painted maps over computer maps. I don’t say this to toot my horn – it’s just the way I am. I grew up with hand-painted game boards and I like em that way.

So – what’s your opinion about geoboard production?

* multi-geomorphic: can fold the ‘Board A’ back upon itself at hexrow Q and butt it against similarly folded ‘Board B’ along hexrow Q, and an entirely new 8.5 x 22” geoboard is created. Two such geoboards produces six new layouts. :toast: Brilliant – an idea that Ian Daglish identified and incorporated in the 2 Normandy geoboards.

Don Petros
 

Bryan Holtby

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2003
Messages
1,220
Reaction score
103
Location
Ontario, Canada
Country
llCanada
I think I may have said this before in an older thread about boards, but I will say it again anyways.

Overlays for board 7 and 8. I would bet that they are the most under used boards of the set. An overlay much like the escarpment overlay included in WoA would go a LONG way to rejuvenating these boards.

Ppl like myself dont like small overlays or severly dislike using multiple overlays (unless playing on VASL), but to me one large overlay wouldnt be that much of an issue.

There can never be enough boards :)
 

Jay White

my sh*t is so tight
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Messages
1,496
Reaction score
7
Location
Vancouver BC Canada
Country
llCanada
For me, this falls under the same umbrella as MMP redo-ing their website.

At this point, I'm not too concerned about websites and boards beyond the next three Action Packs.

I just want to see some stuff getting out the door.

This isn't intended to be a shift of the topic.. my opinion on boards is that there's a lot lined up already, and and the rate its going, we won't see the stuff that's already been made for quite some time.

The more boards the better, but they don't do any good sitting on a computer somewhere waiting to be printed out.
 

zgrose

Elder Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2004
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
948
Location
Kingwood, TX
First name
Zoltan
Country
llUnited States
Geoboards are ok, but the overlay and terrain SSR factor makes them a bit annoying. So I'm investigating eliminating them as a problem altogether. :) With VASL as the base editor and Photoshop for the tricker SSRs all I need is a continuous roll printer and my days of overlays and terrain SSRs are over forever! muwhahahaha!

As for geoboards in general, the rate limiting factor to board production is scenario production. MMP could put out a download pack of 1000 geoboards in PDF format but it doesn't mean we could do anything with them.
 

Roy

Living in Brownbackistan
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
1,347
Reaction score
643
Location
Wichita
Country
llUnited States
I guess I let everyone know my opinion about boards in an earlier thread. Don't want any more.

I do like the idea of large, half board overlays. With two such overlays, you could make a bunch of completely new boards. I'd overtax my non-mathematical brain trying to figure it up, so I won't.

I think that would be the answer to new boards.

HOB has a couple of these I think, work like a charm, from what I've seen. :cool:
 

Thunderchief

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Messages
1,198
Reaction score
739
Location
Canberra, Australia
Country
llAustralia
As some of you would know I'm never short of an opinion.
What I would like to see is HBO's (half-board overlays). Easier to make (perhaps), store and carry. We need BIG grain fields, BIG sections of woods and the like.

I also like geo boards though, and would like to see bigger and more significant hills compared to what we have now. A ridge that ran the length of two boards would be good - either done as two hill boards geo on all sides and using an overlay to bridge the gap when they are joined together, or have them done like the HOB HG boards, but joined along the short edges instead of the longer sides.

There's some ideas, I'm sure there will be more shortly :)
 

Ole Boe

Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,874
Reaction score
12
Location
there...
Country
llNorway
I don't mind overlays at all, at least not if the number doesn't exceed 4-5 per board. I have laminated them and have some sticky gum that holds them in place and leaves no stain, so preparing the board with a few overlays takes shorter time than finding the counters for one side.

What I don't like too much is terrain SSR - it can easily be forgotten during the game.

As for new boards - keep them coming. Many of the later boards are much more interesting than the older, so newer, better boards is fine. The ones I'd really, really like to see soon though, is the ones inside AoO :p
 

Robin Reeve

The Swiss Moron
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
19,595
Reaction score
5,557
Location
St-Légier
First name
Robin
Country
llSwitzerland
Ole Boe said:
What I don't like too much is terrain SSR - it can easily be forgotten during the game.
I feel the same as you. That is why I don't like some of the Paratrooper scenarios... Though, at the time they were published, the choice of boards was much more restricted than today...
What would be interesting is a re-designing of these "classicals" with better adapted geoboards...:rolleyes:
 

ON TOP ASL

Play J94, J98, J110, J111
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
791
Reaction score
17
Location
Rättvik, Sweden
Country
llSweden
More geoboards=YES

Petros said:
My opinion about ASL, MMP, and new boards goes like this:
Hi Petros!
1. OK I got used to the idea, but I also wish that SK-Boards come as separate buy and thereby be TOTALLY accepted to ASL.
2. Yes, more geoboards (But no more of these all dense boards).
3. Good.
4. Yes, if they also are available as separated buys.
5. No, I want more overlays (trying as a designer, I like them).
6. Get them out, if they lack scenarios, stack it together to make a bigger Action Pack, but get it out!
7. Good for me as I do scenarios for east front.
8. Agree, the SK-boards works fine, but if you examine the boards, some of the new age cut/paste technology is clearly visible. Not so nice compared to hand-drawn. (Can't figure out why not using a dedicated Board-Painter instead of computers, even to SK-boards?).
 
Last edited:

MrP

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
4,866
Reaction score
418
Location
Woof? Bark? Whine?
Country
llNew Zealand
More boards please.
More overlays please
More board specific overlays? Whatever happened to Tom repetti's BSO's?
Less, nay, WAY less terrain altering SSRs. I think that designers who use VASL should especially be aware of this - what looks cool on there may well not translate well to the masses with real boards.
What kind of boards? Euro village. A Board 17 replacement. A Big hill - how's the Korea module going to work without that? More PTO terrain.
What kind of overlays? Something to make the lesser used boards more acceptable to scenario designers.

I do like *some* of the HOB FF maps too - some good ideas there.

JMHO.

Cheers

Ian
 

RobZagnut

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Messages
8,814
Reaction score
1,378
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
1) More boards. You can never have too many boards. My favorite products are the two Action packs and HoB’s High Ground and Beyond the Bocage. Each come with two new boards and cool scenarios that use them. Very cool.

2) Overlays. I don’t think players have a problem with one overlay that changes many features. What is irritating is 5 one or two hex overlays that barely changes anything. What I would like to see are:

Specific overlays. There are WAY too many current boards that are rendered useless by a dominating feature. Here are some boards that could use a ‘specific’ overlay of 15-20 hexes to change/remove that feature and give the board new life.

a) Board 6 Chateau. An overlay that turns that one building into a 7 or 8 building village.

b) Board 10 wall hex and surrounding plaza. Too many roads lead into that one hex. An overlay with 10-12 hexes removing that plaza and ‘normalizing’ that village would be nice.

c) Board 11 flat level 1 hill. Does anyone even use that HUGE and FLAT hill board? This board really needs an overlay that can be placed on the level 1 hill and change it to include level 2 and level 3 hexes.

d) Boards 13 and 14 sunken/raised roads. A road overlay that removes those features and adds a few roadside buildings hexes or a few clumps of woods.
 

da priest

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Messages
2,783
Reaction score
10
Location
Lebanon, Mo., turn r
Robert Wolkey said:
1) More boards. ..Each come with two new boards and cool scenarios that use them. Very cool.
Yep, as long as you get both, the boards and scenarios.

2) ..What I would like to see are:
Ditto on all these, but on this one(really sick of fighting for this plaza):

b) Board 10 wall hex and surrounding plaza. Too many roads lead into that one hex. An overlay with 10-12 hexes removing that plaza and ‘normalizing’ that village would be nice.
How about the above, plus overlays to give other city/town boards their own plaza?
 

jasperdog3329

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Messages
505
Reaction score
2
Location
Toronto
Country
llCanada
1. Prefer mounted boards. Why don't companies offer products featuring mounted or unmounted boards? There seems to be a real split in the hobby and this way people can get cost and durability or savings and potentially some rips or wrinkles. Overall -- the more boards the better.
2. More boards. Eat 'em up like the Cookie Monster. Yeah!
3. Agree that there is lots of room for new ideas on boards. Some of the AoO ideas I have seen like the transition from city to outskirts are great. I also like semi-geomorphic boards like HoB's HG that allow larger terrain features.
4. Love the APs. New blood relatively cheaply.
5. More than three small overlays per scenario starts to get annoying. Agree with others that more large ones to change well-worn terrain (Board 3 village again anyone?) or little used terrain (canal/river) would be wonderful.
6. AP. If MMP feels that reprinting BV and the ASLRB is a break even proposition that causes a cash flow crunch then more frequent AP releases should be looked at as a way to provide cash for these core products.
7. Multi-geomorphic idea sounds neat. I just hope it doesn't leave the whole boards looking even more restricted in terms of the layout.
8. When a computer starts putting out masterpieces that can hang in the Louvre, then it will be time to put away the paint brushes. Love the feel of hand painted maps.
 

da priest

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Messages
2,783
Reaction score
10
Location
Lebanon, Mo., turn r
jasperdog3329 said:
1. Prefer mounted boards. Why don't companies offer products featuring mounted or unmounted boards? ...
Hmmm, we've covered this ad nausem, but someone always seems to have missed the posts.

Neither of the 2 board producers has announced it is going the "unmounted" route.

MMP is going with ASLSK style, and HOB is in hopes of continuing the mounted style(they just announced, they thought, they had a provider, that wouldn't kill the price of their modules).

The reason for the MMP decision is cost of modules, pure and simple.
 

WaterRabbit

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2004
Messages
2,566
Reaction score
27
Location
Somewhere
Country
llGreenland
I think there is an ulterior motive here. It seems to me that the main reason you would risk alienating a bunch of customers by printing these flimsy ASLSK things is that they don’t think many people will be playing on them in 5 years time.

The thought process I see here is this: MMP is not planning on continuing ASL past the next 5-10 years (at least in its current format). VASL has been growing popularity. It really doesn’t matter how you print the maps if more people use a program like VASL to play ASL. You can print your own maps from VASL complete with terrain alterations. The cost of printing is now shifted from the publisher to the consumer.

I bet in a couple of years, more people will be using VASL even at tournaments. At this point laptops are cheap enough that it would not be difficult to take two laptops with you to a tournament and set up a poor man’s network and play. And by cheap, I mean in comparison to acquiring all of the ASL stuff and making it portable enough to travel with.
 

Roy

Living in Brownbackistan
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
1,347
Reaction score
643
Location
Wichita
Country
llUnited States
Hello Jeff

WaterRabbit said:
You can print your own maps from VASL complete with terrain alterations. The cost of printing is now shifted from the publisher to the consumer.
Yeah, ok, I can see this.

I bet in a couple of years, more people will be using VASL even at tournaments. At this point laptops are cheap enough that it would not be difficult to take two laptops with you to a tournament and set up a poor man’s network and play. And by cheap, I mean in comparison to acquiring all of the ASL stuff and making it portable enough to travel with.
Don't see this. People still prefer FTF. VASL is big because it connects you to people you don't normally get to play, and people in remote places with no one else to play, now get to.

If people are going to drive or fly the distance to a tournament, most want the FTF experience. Been going to tournaments for 7 years now, and the only computer I've seen at any of them is the TD's, being used to store tournament information.

We have 5 players in our club here in Wichita. I am the only one out of 5 who uses VASL to play. And we would all prefer to sit down across from each other for ASL.
 

MrP

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
4,866
Reaction score
418
Location
Woof? Bark? Whine?
Country
llNew Zealand
VASL at tournaments? Don't see it and to be honest, don't want to see it. For me, the game's as much about being sociable as anything (well, nearly, but you know what I mean) and having 2 linked laptops just doesnt do it for me. May as well be in different rooms.... VASL is a fab product but IMHO sceanrios should be designed for geo and HASL boards without needing VASL's cool terrain altering trickery to be playable. TBH, some scenarios I'd only play on VASL as I can't quite get the all-woods-are-hills type SSrs into my thick skull any other way :)

Just to get this thread back on track, lets have more mapboards and less terrain SSRs please!

Cheers
 

Pitman

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,104
Reaction score
2,371
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
Jeff, I think you are wrong on virtually every count. Nobody will be using VASL at tournaments. MMP has no conspiracy going.

Good grief.
 

RobZagnut

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Messages
8,814
Reaction score
1,378
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
>I think there is an ulterior motive here. It seems to me that the main reason you would risk alienating a bunch of customers by printing these flimsy ASLSK things is that they don’t think many people will be playing on them in 5 years time.

Or it could be a matter of economics. When you would have to sell mounted boards in a module for $48 ($12 each) it won't be easy selling that module when the cost is $118. A price of $82 ($3 each) is much easier to swallow as a consumer and it keeps the product under the magical $100 mark.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the SK maps. They're a good solution to rising costs.

I even pre-ordered a BV #3, so I could get all the new maps. I would like to have a full set of these maps and use them in my traveling set rather than spend the money on unmounted sheets then pay to have them laminated.
 

King Scott

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
2,274
Reaction score
372
Location
Fullerton
Country
llUnited States
VASL at Tournaments?!?!

I have to agree with The Big Bad...people *want* FTF play above anything else. VASL is good for those in isolated areas and meeting/playing with others around the world. VASL, while good, is merely the "pornography" of ASL...sure, it gets you through the dry spells, but you'd jump at a chance for some FTF play.

Reminds me of the guy in our club who suggested a SASL tournament at West Coast Melee... :rolleyes: Insert your favorite pun or double entendre here...

Mounted maps are superior, but rising costs and decreasing financial return for MMP (or whoever) mean that the SK style may well be the norm in the near future. If keeping ASL alive means SK-style maps, then I guess we can all accept that.

Semper Fi!
Scott
 
Top