Geoboards - Boards 1,2,3,4 - 'Look Alike boards'

DWPetros

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An idea.

Given the frequency of usage of Boards 1-4, the idea is for MMP to produce new versions ('Z') of those boards. The idea would allow players to substitute those Look-alike boards for the original boards in existing published (and future) scenarios. The reason for this - those same originally published boards have been used umpteen times in scenarios - guys have probably memorized the LOS. They might very well like to try those favorite old scenarios with a new twist.

So, here's a sketch of what I mean: (Board 1Z):

15515

I've made several similar 'Z' sketches - Boards 1,2,3,4,12,17,20,21. (and still going)

Would this work? Would players use Board Z's on old scenarios?
 

Gordon

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I'm not a huge fan of 'Z' boards. I'd rather have board-specific overlays to spice things up, but I'm weird that way.

Regardless, keep coming up with interesting ideas!
 

DWPetros

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I'm not a huge fan of 'Z' boards. I'd rather have board-specific overlays to spice things up, but I'm weird that way.

Regardless, keep coming up with interesting ideas!
Thanks. As far as I know, only 2 boards; 10 and 17, have been 'Z'ed. Not sure if the intent here was to substitute these for the originals and to play original scenarios on them or not... These sketches are to be used with current (or future) scenarios.

A production of these 'Z' boards wouldn't necessitate producing new scenarios or APs - its a 'boards only' release designed to breath new life into old scenarios, possibly to encourage new also - though this is better served with new maps (which I've sketched a slew of). Should be an easy decision by MMP:

Less investment in time or money - decent return I would think.
 

Mister T

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Boards 10z and 17z were not so successful when they were released.

To rejuvenate a board, nothing works best than a couple of overlays. This was done for instance in Red Tears Shed on Grey, with good results.

We need more "transformative overlays", that mix several terrain features over 10-15 hexes that could markedly change the nature of a given board.
 

von Marwitz

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Would this work? Would players use Board Z's on old scenarios?
I think the feedback on 10z and 17z was reserved.

While in the old days of mounted boards, the 'z'-idea would have been splendid in the form of overlays, nowadays the question is rightfully asked:

Why make a new print of a board that is merely half-new (the 'z' part of it) rather than printing one which is completely new?

This question has its point IMHO.

The best innovation MMP had with regard to boards has been the 'Fort-board' format (i.e. bd1a/b etc.)

A new innovation that I have proposed about half a dozen times throughout the last decade would be 'diagonal terrain features' that could be realized by means of double wide boards.

Or - if you want to somehow elaborate on the 'z'-idea to create a large overlay that 'connects' terrain features of two existing boards by covering portions of both of them (i.e. one hill mass each on each existing board could be connected to form a 'horseshoe-hill' extending over both boards.

Yet another idea I keep voicing is to produce transparent overlays, i.e. road and railroad depictions especially that would create 'new ways' through existing woods masses, etc.

von Marwitz
 
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zgrose

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Put one out on VASL. Fairly minimal investment and you get instant feedback.
Same for "transparent" overlays (although I presume this would require scenario support to be useful).
 

Houlie

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If the intent is to gauge interest, I am unenthusiastic. I would much rather see new boards developed than upgraded or modified old ones. If these were produced, I would pass.
 

DWPetros

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While in the old days of mounted boards, the 'z'-idea would have been splendid in the form of overlays, nowadays the question is rightfully asked:
Why make a new print of a board that is merely half-new (the 'z' part of it) rather than printing one which is completely new?
This question has its point IMHO.

The best innovation MMP had with regard to boards has been the 'Fort-board' format (i.e. bd1a/b etc.)

A new innovation that I have proposed about half a dozen times throughout the last decade would be 'diagonal terrain features' that could be realized by means of double wide boards.

Or - if you want to somehow elaborate on the 'z'-idea to create a large overlay that 'connects' terrain features of two existing boards by covering portions of both of them (i.e. one hill mass each on each existing board could be connected to form a 'horseshoe-hill' extending over both boards.

Yet another idea I keep voicing is to produce transparent overlays, i.e. road and railroad depictions especially that would create 'new ways' through existing woods masses, etc.
von Marwitz
In reply - Yes, I agree making new boards is best. ( i have about 300 of such sketches ). That said, such new boards require new scenarios which take time, and such releases (like an AP) are squeezed out roughly once a year - with 2 boards. Nice, but kind of stingy. New Z boards (ie. 1-4) permits us all to use those boards with the many existing scenarios using those same boards. Quick and easy, and breathes new life into old packages.

I like the large overlays to existing boards - I've sketched several 1/3 to 1/2 board overlays for use on existing boards. Great idea.

Transparent overlays? I've tried these. They look shiny and weird and are difficult to produce. But still open to the idea. Conceptually cool.
 

bprobst

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The idea would allow players to substitute those Look-alike boards for the original boards in existing published scenarios.
IMO that's a frankly terrible idea. Who cares if the LOS is memorised? If a scenario only challenges you because you know when a LOS is good or not, I'd suggest that the issue is not the map.

If the terrain is only a little bit different then it's hard to see why anyone should bother, and if it's radically different then it becomes a different scenario (in the laziest way possible).

FWIW Critical Hit have been trying this idea for years and I'm pretty sure even CH fanatics think poorly of it.

Now ... using "modified" boards to design new scenarios ... sure. However, I think the time and resources involved would be better invested in actual new boards (or overlays).
 

von Marwitz

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Transparent overlays? I've tried these. They look shiny and weird and are difficult to produce. But still open to the idea. Conceptually cool.
Basically, they are pretty ways to produce them. There are transparency films / plastic sheets (dunno the exact correct expression in English), that you can print on with any standard printer. Cutting them out would be not different to regular overlays.

With regard to printing: It was done on a regular basis in a company I worked for. You do need to be careful, though to use the correct transparency films. Some are suspectible to heat and if you run these through a laser printer, they begin to melt screwing up your printer. I have not checked if there are glare-free transparency films for standard printers but I'd be rather confident there are.

With regard to the usefulness: Yes, probably some scenarios would be required. But the cost for some overlay sheets would not exceed that of a board and thus could be part of a scenario pack at reasonable cost, say a Winter Offensive Bonus Pack.

However, once in the wild, transparent road, street, gully, railroad, etc. overlays could be of use to scenario designers for the 100 boards out there. Furthermore, it would be an opportunity for MMP to spearhead an innovation, many of which have come from TPPs lately. If such an innovation originated from MMP, the attendant rules (which would hardly be any) would be 'official' and thus emanate out generally.

Using transparent overlays, even the length of straight roads could be adjusted at will by sliding two transparent overlay roads above each other to create the exact length of road desired.

von Marwitz
 
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Michael Dorosh

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An idea.

Given the frequency of usage of Boards 1-4, the idea is for MMP to produce new versions ('Z') of those boards. The idea would allow players to substitute those Look-alike boards for the original boards in existing published (and future) scenarios. The reason for this - those same originally published boards have been used umpteen times in scenarios - guys have probably memorized the LOS. They might very well like to try those favorite old scenarios with a new twist.

So, here's a sketch of what I mean: (Board 1Z):

View attachment 15515

I've made several similar 'Z' sketches - Boards 1,2,3,4,12,17,20,21. (and still going)

Would this work? Would players use Board Z's on old scenarios?
Well, I for one like it. Hate overlays, and for purposes of this discussion I think overlays have little to do with what is being suggested.

It would be interesting to see what a playtest would look like in which a board 1Z was substituted for a board 1 in a classic or well known (often played) scenario.

Edited to add that if Aussie Pitman is against it, that is reason enough to like it.
 

62nd Army

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As far as tranformative overlays I would like to see one for the board 38 jungle airfield. It would allow this board more versatility and use.
IMO the airfield should have been an overlay and not directly printed on the map.

Best,
Joe
 

Gordon

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Well, the runway on Betio for the Blood Reef: Tarawa HASL is approximately 32 hexes long (depending on what you consider the runway) and I'd imagine that it was probably a small-ish airfield by the standards of the day.
 

zgrose

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1000-3000 yards does seem to be the range for smaller->very large planes according to "Nine Thousand Miles of Concrete - A review of Second World War temporary airfields in England"
 

pj norton

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The local airfield here in Plymouth Michigan is 2,302 feet long and the other airfield I am familiar with is 3000 feet long.
 
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