General Thread: Did We Do This Right?

[Tuomo]

Tried to find an existing general thread to attach this to, but couldn't. Seems like a useful thing to have a general thread for "Did We Do This Right?" (DWDTR? Hmm...) questions, since they seem popular at the moment. Maybe this is the place to go when you're too lazy to look up the rules yourself. (Edit - also recognizing the fact that most everyone wants to get the rules right, but their objectivity may be under duress in the heat of the moment)

Two things came up in a game today:

1) A broken unit is adjacent to some enemy units (who happen to be SS) and has no legal rout path without interdiction. No Quarter has not been declared. HOWEVER, the adjacent SS units are all inside an enemy FFE. Does the broken unit still rout to them, or is it allowed to Nope Outta There because of the friendly (to it) FFE?

2) Moderate Dust is in effect, and a tank fires its MA on a building it suspects of hiding a HIP OBA observer. Area Target Type is used. The Original TH DR is a 1,1, with the Moderate Dust dr being a 6 (which gets halved, FRU, to a LV Hindrance DRM of +3, F11.72). The other relevant TH modifiers are +1 BU, -1 Armor Leader, -1 Acq, +2 concealed/HIP target, for a net +1, so the final TH DR was a 6, with an Since this is not the "lowest Final TH DR possible for that shot (to) achieve a hit", we played that it was indeed a Critical Hit.

But what if the Armor Leader wasn't there? With a net TH DRM of +4 (including the Dust hindance), the snakeyes would indeed have been the lowest final TH DR possible to achieve a hit, BUT, could one argue that the LV hindrance DRM could have been less, and therefore this wasn't the lowest final TH DR possible to achieve a hit? The tank could have rolled a 1-4, and that would have still been a hit...

Thanks for any help.

 

[A_T_Great]

Tried to find an existing general thread to attach this to, but couldn't. Seems like a useful thing to have a general thread for "Did We Do This Right?" (DWDTR? Hmm...) questions, since they seem popular at the moment. Maybe this is the place to go when you're too lazy to look up the rules yourself.

Two things came up in a game today:

1) A broken unit is adjacent to some enemy units (who happen to be SS) and has no legal rout path without interdiction. No Quarter has not been declared. HOWEVER, the adjacent SS units are all inside an enemy FFE. Does the broken unit still rout to them, or is it allowed to Nope Outta There because of the friendly (to it) FFE?

2) Moderate Dust is in effect, and a tank fires its MA on a building it suspects of hiding a HIP OBA observer. Area Target Type is used. The Original TH DR is a 1,1, with the Moderate Dust dr being a 6 (which gets halved, FRU, to a LV Hindrance DRM of +3, F11.72). The other relevant TH modifiers are +1 BU, -1 Armor Leader, -1 Acq, +2 concealed/HIP target, for a net +1, so the final TH DR was a 6, with an Since this is not the "lowest Final TH DR possible for that shot (to) achieve a hit", we played that it was indeed a Critical Hit.

But what if the Armor Leader wasn't there? With a net TH DRM of +4 (including the Dust hindance), the snakeyes would indeed have been the lowest final TH DR possible to achieve a hit, BUT, could one argue that the LV hindrance DRM could have been less, and therefore this wasn't the lowest final TH DR possible to achieve a hit? The tank could have rolled a 1-4, and that would have still been a hit...

Thanks for any help.

1. I don't think they would be subject to interdiction, because the FFE would cause +1 to the IFT which would eliminate interdiction. If other units are causing the interdiction, then I quote from A20.21 "Surrendering units are not subject to FFE or minefield attacks."
2. I would guess that in this case,the lowest final TH DR possible for the shot to achieve a hit, would be based upon the actual LV hindrance, not a theoretical possible hindrance. Particularly since the LV hindrance is determined in the RPh, and is not different for each shot.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The Dust DRM is determined with a third die for each attack....

 

[Tuomo]

The Dust DRM is determined with a third die for each attack....

Right. So I'm thinking that would be part of the consideration for an Improbable Hit, like any other TH DRM.

The question was, do you consider that "the dust DR could have been lower than it was" as part of the "lowest possible Final TH DR", or do you just take the Dust DRM as a given for that shot, like a Grain Hindrance DRM would be. I'm thinking the latter is correct.

 

[Wayne]

I would guess that in this case,the lowest final TH DR possible for the shot to achieve a hit, would be based upon the actual LV hindrance, not a theoretical possible hindrance.

Agreed.

The question was, do you consider that "the dust DR could have been lower than it was" as part of the "lowest possible Final TH DR", or do you just take the Dust DRM as a given for that shot... I'm thinking the latter is correct.

Agreed.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I think the actual DRM is used for determining whether it was the lowest DR needed.

Unlike when you determine whether an attack can cause DM/Encirclement - then one assumes the lowest possible Dust DRM (per Q&A), IIRC.

 

[Larry]

The PS:

A7.7, A10.62, F11.71, & F11.72
For Encircling (A7.7) and DM (A10.62) purposes under Light or Moderate Dust (F11.71 & F11.72) conditions is the actual DUST
DLV subsequent dr required to determine if enough FP has been applied or is just the possibility of the lowest Dust DLV
considered.
A. Just the possibility of the lowest Dust DLV is considered.

 

[Tuomo]

The PS:

Sounds like a follow-up question might be warranted, just to verify whether an Impronable Hit is included in this line of thinking.

 

[Carln0130]

Surrendering units are not subject to FFE or minefield attacks. A20.21.
Prisoners walk through OBA and over minefields. The secret to penetrating these barriers you see, is to stop trying ;-)