Gaining DM Status in Normal Range.

[Stewart]

So, was it intentional that the gaining of DM status of units in OG in Normal range in SK was meant to be completely different from ASL and completely confusing for SK players entering ASL?

 

[Robin Reeve]

So, was it intentional that the gaining of DM status of units in OG in Normal range in SK was meant to be completely different from ASL and completely confusing for SK players entering ASL?

Can you elaborate?
What is different?

 

[Stewart]

h) Marker Removal: All DM counters are
removed at the end of the RPh unless the DM
unit is adjacent to a Known Enemy Unit. A broken unit may opt to keep its DM status unless in woods or building.


3.6 During the RtPh a broken unit ... may not remain
unemplaced in the same Open Ground location in
the normal range and LOS of a Known Good
Order enemy unit that would be able to interdict
it if it were routing in that hex (see below).


ASL
A broken unit
is also automatically under DM whenever a Known armed enemy unit is ADJACENT to it (even if it does not end the phase ADJACENT to it) or when it starts a RtPh in a Blaze Location (B25.4) or in Open Ground in the LOS and Normal Range (10.532) of a Known enemy unit.

This Normal Range is under INTERDICTOR
No weapon is effective for Interdiction purposes beyond its Normal Range or 16 hexes (whichever is less).


This implies that INTERDICTION must be valid for the DM status as referenced. AND would coincide with the SK RULE.


It has been suggested that Interdiction doesn't matter...
The unit must be in OPEN GROUND...and if you are not in OG if outside the CA of the enemy tank

Open Ground (OG; for Concealment Gain/Loss, Dash, Interdiction, and
Rout determination, an Open Ground hex is any hex in Normal Range in
which any Interdictor could apply the -1 FFMO DRM)


Well it DOES in SK....Why would it be any different in ASL?
I'm looking why that is treated COMPLETELY differently in SK, as it makes a HUGE impact in the game.

I don't think the rules for gaining DM are different. Just that players ignore the OG definition and just focus on Normal Range.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I think it was most likely unintended.

 

[SSlunt]

I would say that the unit is DM'ed. if in open ground. You need not interdict to force DM status. The rule you site says "...Rout determination, " not DM status. It could not interdict rule. We are not forcing it to route so Route determination is not part of this as well. The ASOP says put on DM counter 6.11B then conduct routes. 6.21B

 

[Stewart]

We are not forcing it to route so Route determination is not part of this as well. The ASOP says put on DM counter 6.11B then conduct routes. 6.21B

You ARE forcing it to rout if you DM it and it's in OG.

 

[Stewart]

Assumption:
CX units may not interdict why? "due to those limitations on its fire "
Can someone explain the limitations? Describe them discreetly and how they are TEM or Hindrance DRM's that negate OG status?

I can't find where it describes the +1 DRM due to CX status as TEM or Hindrance DRM (which are the requirements for negating FFMO, and thus OG status)

 

[SSlunt]

A6.7 "...effective LOS Hindrance hex are modified by a +1 DRM to either the IFT or To Hit DR... The presence of such a Hindrance always negates Interdiction and FFMO." 10.531"... Open Ground hex is any hex in which the particular enemy unit(s) could apply, during a hypothetical Defensive First Fire opportunity (regardless of what attacks it actually made in previous phases), the -1 FFMO DRM. 10.532 a positive DRM would usually come into effect and thereby disallow its Interdiction.

 

[Jwil2020]

I can't find where it describes the +1 DRM due to CX status as TEM or Hindrance DRM (which are the requirements for negating FFMO, and thus OG status)

Not quite sure if you are referring to ASLRB or SKRB (it seems the thread has veered into ASL).
IF, your question is in regard to SK:
Second to last para of 3.6 (pg. 16 SKRB4) lists the several stipulations which disqualify a unit from interdicting a routing unit. One of which is any unit with a positive DRM including CX.

 

[Jwil2020]

I don't think the rules for gaining DM are different. Just that players ignore the OG definition and just focus on Normal Range.

Again, not certain which "players" or RB you are referring to, so please forgive my confusion in advance. I can only say that as an SK player, I do not ignore the OG stipulation when determining if a unit could be interdicted. Not really sure what is confusing here...

 

[Stewart]

Again, not certain which "players" or RB you are referring to, so please forgive my confusion in advance. I can only say that as an SK player, I do not ignore the OG stipulation when determining if a unit could be interdicted. Not really sure what is confusing here...

SK rulebook AND ASL RB
The confusion is that the SK rulebook doesn't DM a unit when the AFV has to change CA. Players think that the ASL AFV DOES.
The rules seem to indicate that you Don't DM as the unit isn't in a OG hex as defined by the 10.532 reference in the ASL rules.


Thus the discussion of OG, as you stated, in your Interdiction description.

 

[Stewart]

A6.7 "...effective LOS Hindrance hex are modified by a +1 DRM to either the IFT or To Hit DR... The presence of such a Hindrance always negates Interdiction and FFMO." 10.531"... Open Ground hex is any hex in which the particular enemy unit(s) could apply, during a hypothetical Defensive First Fire opportunity (regardless of what attacks it actually made in previous phases), the -1 FFMO DRM. 10.532 a positive DRM would usually come into effect and thereby disallow its Interdiction.

So, its not being fired upon, but rather subject to Rout rules which Interdiction is a part of. Thus, the hex isn't OG as the DM in OG in Normal Range requires.

 

[SSlunt]

10.531"... Open Ground hex is any hex in which the particular enemy unit(s) could apply, during a hypothetical Defensive First Fire opportunity (regardless of what attacks it actually made in previous phases), the -1 FFMO DRM.

Yes it is in open ground by the definition