FRIENDLY Moving and ENEMY Activation

Kijug

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Perhaps more of a thought experiment, but I did have something similar and wanted to confirm I’m doing things correctly.

A FRIENDLY Russian 10-3 stack moves, in the open, non-assault...making a run for it. Now the Germans are the ENEMY.

First, any Activated German unit First Fires with -2 for FFNAM/FFMO. So, based on “would it activate”, four German locations open fire but the Russian 10-3 stack survives all morale checks. Perhaps one or two of those German units panics in the meantime (they still have to roll for “what to do”).

Next, each S? that is eligible rolls for activation. Some are dummies and some activate and immediately First Fire. Again the 10-3 stack survives.

So two things. First, a 10-3 stack could cause multiple S? to be activated and or removed as dummies...correct? Perhaps a little gamey, but I get it. You could kind of “clear the field” so to speak.

Second, when a S? rolls the Activation Check and panics, is the resulting generated units concealed with a panic marker? Or are they unconcealed with a panic marker?

In short, if the ENEMY rolls crappy AC checks, and the FRIENDLY rolls good MC DRs, then, I guess like regular ASL, folks use up their FP and the offense can keep moving on.

I think that all sounds right and what I’m doing.

Thanks!
 

ChappyNS

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Hi there, glad to see another SASL'er! Here are my two cents:

"So two things. First, a 10-3 stack could cause multiple S? to be activated and or removed as dummies...correct? Perhaps a little gamey, but I get it. You could kind of “clear the field” so to speak."

Yes. As you laid out earlier, the activated units engage first, then S? are activated (or not) in a specific order as outlined in 5.2 until the Target loses its good order status (5.3 and 5.31)

"Second, when a S? rolls the Activation Check and panics, is the resulting generated units concealed with a panic marker? Or are they unconcealed with a panic marker?"

S? do not panic on activation (5.3 Panic is not possible for such a just-activated unit) and will immediately engage the enemy (5.3)


Have fun!
 

Ahriman667

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That would be funny, if a single 436 squad kills the whole stack.
 

Kijug

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So table G1(A), a German S? activates due to a IFT DRM of -2 at a range of 10 hexes--the above Russian stack is moving in the open.

Now a single German 4-4-7 activates (max FP range=8). Would the German a) "unactivate" because its out of range and doesn't have a target, per se (I don't see this in the rules, but I could argue it seems to make a little sense), or b) activate and then go concealed because he isn't going to shoot, or c) activate and stay unconcealed and do nothing--thereby perhaps causing the Russian stack to consider their next move. I think the answer is "c" but I think "b" is a better answer since the unit isn't going to shoot.

I'm just wondering that, if there were several S? at ranges 9+ and a FRIENDLY was moving in the open, the FRIENDLY could cause several S? to Activate...yes? And then reveal all these ENEMY units to the FRIENDLY. By keeping them concealed, if they are otherwise out of range, seems to help the ENEMY a little.

Second, on S8.61, and Activated units. Again, say, the Russian 10-3 stack is moving along, it is possible to cause panic on several Activated German units and thereby "removing them from play" for a time (however, adjacent ENEMY units would FPF). Correct?

All fun! Thanks!
 

tommyl

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Now a single German 4-4-7 activates (max FP range=8). Would the German a) "unactivate" because its out of range and doesn't have a target, per se (I don't see this in the rules, but I could argue it seems to make a little sense), or b) activate and then go concealed because he isn't going to shoot, or c) activate and stay unconcealed and do nothing--thereby perhaps causing the Russian stack to consider their next move. I think the answer is "c" but I think "b" is a better answer since the unit isn't going to shoot.
It is option B. It is buried in the middle of S 5.3 "each non-firing unit remains concealed."
 

ChappyNS

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So table G1(A), a German S? activates due to a IFT DRM of -2 at a range of 10 hexes--the above Russian stack is moving in the open.

Now a single German 4-4-7 activates (max FP range=8). Would the German a) "unactivate" because its out of range and doesn't have a target, per se (I don't see this in the rules, but I could argue it seems to make a little sense), or b) activate and then go concealed because he isn't going to shoot, or c) activate and stay unconcealed and do nothing--thereby perhaps causing the Russian stack to consider their next move. I think the answer is "c" but I think "b" is a better answer since the unit isn't going to shoot.

I'm just wondering that, if there were several S? at ranges 9+ and a FRIENDLY was moving in the open, the FRIENDLY could cause several S? to Activate...yes? And then reveal all these ENEMY units to the FRIENDLY. By keeping them concealed, if they are otherwise out of range, seems to help the ENEMY a little.

Second, on S8.61, and Activated units. Again, say, the Russian 10-3 stack is moving along, it is possible to cause panic on several Activated German units and thereby "removing them from play" for a time (however, adjacent ENEMY units would FPF). Correct?

All fun! Thanks!

Tommy answered your first query. Answer (b)

As for the second, the possibility of panic in even one unit is not good. You first need to roll doubles, and even then, as per 6.21, depending on the class of the unit (ie elite, first line) they are not necessarily panicked.

Note sure why you risk a 10-3 stack. There are two time old adages:

1. "It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye" and secondly

2. "It's all fun and games until you activate a squad, an MMG, and an 8-1 leader who KIA your stack with a -3 DRM" :)
 

Kijug

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Tommy answered your first query. Answer (b)

As for the second, the possibility of panic in even one unit is not good. You first need to roll doubles, and even then, as per 6.21, depending on the class of the unit (ie elite, first line) they are not necessarily panicked.

Note sure why you risk a 10-3 stack. There are two time old adages:

1. "It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye" and secondly

2. "It's all fun and games until you activate a squad, an MMG, and an 8-1 leader who KIA your stack with a -3 DRM" :)
Yea, thanks. Just thinking on the edges to make sure I'm got things right. Heh, I'd never do that in full ASL. =)

Thanks, y'all!
 

Kijug

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Oh, if there are two ENEMY S? next to each other, and both COULD activate...do you activate all ENEMY S? that could potentially combine to form a FG? Or do you activate one S? [location] at a time?

For just this reason, if the Russian 10-3 went charging along, in ASL I'm sure the ENEMY would fire as much as he could to get rid of that 10-3. Whereas, if only one S? location was activated at a time, the chances of getting enough FP to harm the stack is reduced.
 

ChappyNS

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Oh, if there are two ENEMY S? next to each other, and both COULD activate...do you activate all ENEMY S? that could potentially combine to form a FG? Or do you activate one S? [location] at a time?

For just this reason, if the Russian 10-3 went charging along, in ASL I'm sure the ENEMY would fire as much as he could to get rid of that 10-3. Whereas, if only one S? location was activated at a time, the chances of getting enough FP to harm the stack is reduced.
Fire groups: 8.5 - 8.53
 

Ahriman667

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Fire groups: 8.5 - 8.53
The S8.5 rules apply to activated EN units only.

As per the original post, you would do one S? (Activation Check>Fire Action (if possible)) at a time. EXC to this is S5.12 where multiple S? (normally this would be limited to two S? counters in a Location, as per initial setup limitations, but a third might end up in the stack prior to checking for activation) might exist in a single Location, and they could all be checked for Activation before combining in a potential FG.
 

daniel zucker

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and do not forget Long range Activation S5.32. don't happen ofton but when it does, it can hurt for a long time
 

Ahriman667

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Good point. Was thinking of mentioning it too. Having a HMG open up with a -2DRM (with a leader DRM as well most likely) would definitely make for a shitty day.
 

Faded 8-1

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Dude, no way I'd be running my 10-3 around baiting down-2 shots. Not even in SASL. That's just asking for disaster! And if he lives he will see to it that you are cleaning the latrines for weeks.

Use a HS, please. 10-3s don't grow on trees, especially in SASL.
 
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