free los checks during setup...

[ecz]

...are ALWAYS allowed for the Scenario Defender (per index definition), even when Bore Sighting is NA
correct?
I just had a chat on VASL about this

 

[Binchois]

Absolutely! So long as you are the "Scenario Defender," you may make any number of free LOS checks prior to setup. Bore-Sighting doesn't affect this rule, but can make free LOS checks available to a side that doesn't fit the definition of "Scenario Defender":

A6.11 LOS CHECKS: Before setup, LOS may be checked only by the side setting up first, and only if that side is the Scenario Defender, or has Pre-Registered Fire (C1.73) or Bore-Sighted weapons (C6.41-.42).​

 

[Larry]

But a "scenario defender" exists when the "scenario attacker" sets up wholly off board. Being the defender is not the same as being the scenario defender.

 

[Eagle4ty]

But a "scenario defender" exists when the "scenario attacker" sets up wholly off board. Being the defender is not the same as being the scenario defender.

Exactly. A fine point often overlooked by players. If both sides set up on-board they are neither the Scenario Attacker nor the Scenario Defender regardless of the possible situation that may be presented.

 

[Jazz]

But a "scenario defender" exists when the "scenario attacker" sets up wholly off board. Being the defender is not the same as being the scenario defender.

Correct. not every scenario has a formal "Scenario Defender" as defined in the book. Note that having per-registerd OBA or being granted Bore-sighting for some reason other than being the formal scenario defender (by SSR) gives one leave to check LOS prior to play?

 

[Eagle4ty]

Correct. not every scenario has a formal "Scenario Defender" as defined in the book. Note that having per-registerd OBA or being granted Bore-sighting for some reason other than being the formal scenario defender (by SSR) gives one leave to check LOS prior to play?

To an extent I would think yes as one could check LOS from potential Gun/MMG/HMG positions to potential boresighted locations and since in most cases their possible setup locations and potential boresighted locations could be numerous, the ability to check almost all LOS is quite great.

 

[Jazz]

To an extent I would think yes as one could check LOS from potential Gun/MMG/HMG positions to potential boresighted locations and since in most cases their possible setup locations and potential boresighted locations could be numerous, the ability to check almost all LOS is quite great.

When creating rules and SSRs, it is wicked difficult to formally define just what constitutes a possible location and a potential boresight without granting blanket leave to check ALL possible LOSes...which is what the rules do.

 

[witchbottles]

it does not require the scenario to sp[ecify a player is the "Scenario Defender". Per the Index,:

" Scenario Attacker/Defender (The Scenario Defender is the side that sets up wholly or partly on-board and does not have to capture terrain (on other than its setup board ) in order to fulfill its Victory Conditions, while facing an opposing side that enters wholly from Offboard. This latter side is termed the Scenario Attacker...."

If one side sets up on board, while the other side must enter all their forces from off-board, the side setting up onboard and meets the VC requirements as given in the Index, is ALWAYS a "Scenario Defender", regardless of whether it was specified on the scenario card or SSRs or not.

 

[Jazz]

it does not require the scenario to sp[ecify a player is the "Scenario Defender". Per the Index,:

" Scenario Attacker/Defender (The Scenario Defender is the side that sets up wholly or partly on-board and does not have to capture terrain (on other than its setup board ) in order to fulfill its Victory Conditions, while facing an opposing side that enters wholly from Offboard. This latter side is termed the Scenario Attacker...."

If one side sets up on board, while the other side must enter all their forces from off-board, the side setting up onboard and meets the VC requirements as given in the Index, is ALWAYS a "Scenario Defender", regardless of whether it was specified on the scenario card or SSRs or not.

Actually, *ANYTHING* can be SSRed away.....shoddy scenario design, but strictly within the rules.

As the rules (A6.11) specifically say, if a side qualifies as a formally defined SCENARIO DEFENDER, or if it is granted Pre-registered OBA, or if they are granted the ability (through being formal scenario defender or SSR) to Bore Sight that side may perform pre-game LOS checks freely.

 

[Jazz]

Something I just realized with A6.11 as written, even if the SCENARIO DEFENDER has no weapons that can be bore sighted, he still gets free LOS checks during setup (!) I always played that the fig leaf that allowed LOS check was the possiblity of bore sighting. Seems that is an un-needed fig leaf?

I guess thats what the original question was wasn't it?

 

[ecz]

exactly, someone questioned my right to freely check los during setup as Scenario Defender (per index) not having BS possibilities, but he finally agreed that it was legal

 

[witchbottles]

Something I just realized with A6.11 as written, even if the SCENARIO DEFENDER has no weapons that can be bore sighted, he still gets free LOS checks during setup (!) I always played that the fig leaf that allowed LOS check was the possiblity of bore sighting. Seems that is an un-needed fig leaf?

I guess thats what the original question was wasn't it?

no fig leaf required. But please don't come to ASLOK wearing nothing because we told you no fig leaf is required?

 

[witchbottles]

Something I just realized with A6.11 as written, even if the SCENARIO DEFENDER has no weapons that can be bore sighted, he still gets free LOS checks during setup (!) I always played that the fig leaf that allowed LOS check was the possiblity of bore sighting. Seems that is an un-needed fig leaf?

I guess thats what the original question was wasn't it?

There is a big "UNLESS" there.

"... and does not have to capture terrain (on other than its setup board ) in order to fulfill its Victory Conditions, while facing an opposing side that enters wholly from Offboard. ..." If your VCs require you to capture terrain other than on your setup board(s), you may not make free LOS checks, as you are not the Scenario Defender, even if all enemy units are entering from off-board. (unless you have pre-registered OBA, are defined by SSR as the Scenario Defender, or can boresight.)

 

[jrv]

There is a big "UNLESS" there.

"... and does not have to capture terrain (on other than its setup board ) in order to fulfill its Victory Conditions, while facing an opposing side that enters wholly from Offboard. ..." If your VCs require you to capture terrain other than on your setup board(s), you may not make free LOS checks, as you are not the Scenario Defender, even if all enemy units are entering from off-board. (unless you have pre-registered OBA, are defined by SSR as the Scenario Defender, or can boresight.)

It strikes me as not a very big "UNLESS", more an unless. Can you think of a scenario where the "defender" has to capture terrain other than in his setup area?

JR

 

[witchbottles]

It strikes me as not a very big "UNLESS", more an unless. Can you think of a scenario where the "defender" has to capture terrain other than in his setup area?

JR

ESG 45 Below the Belt, maybe?

 

[Tim Niesen]

If both sides set up on board, and as a consequence there is no scensrio defender, can both side bore sight? Tim

 

[davegin]

No bore sighting if enemy sets up on board. Only if enemy is totally entering and not limited by SSR.