France: Saddam's Ally

Deltapooh

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Come on guys. Let's not get too pissed.

Dog 1, the French are still our allies. There are a number of options available to them more forceful that they are not taking. When the fight is on, people don't care how big you are, or if they'll loose. I know I don't.

This is just business. It's how the game is played. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angered by the French government. However, I do believe it would be a huge mistake to ruin an over sixty-year relationship over someone like Saddam. The US does the same thing everyday to our allies in the UN. It's just how things are.

As Tzar stated, read between the lines. Go beyond the tough talk and threats. That's where the truth lies.
 

Cheetah772

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This is not a game!

Deltapooh,

This is not a game to be played with the lives of soldiers and civilians as well.

The business of wars is a serious one, and shouldn't be considered like something to be played like a chessboard.

If you think I am making this way too personal, too bad, it's the lives of soldiers and civilians we're talking about. Unlike Marko, who consider such things trivial and my American troops a toy to be played with, I take this very seriously. I have thought this through, and with a careful consideration of all facts taken into account, I have come to the conclusion that the benefits outweigh the cons of a second war with Iraq.

Not once, did I ever consider this a political game or a cyber-simulated wargame.

And for the French or German government, I don't think it realizes how damaging it can be to us and our relationship to each other. Don't they know if they brought out this anti-Americanism crap, it would ruin our relationship in long terms. There is no way I would ever forgive them for playing the anti-American card, to you, it may be just business, but for me, when somebody actually threatens you for no other reason than not liking your country, I take it very personally.

Had I been Bush Jr. I would denounce France and Germany much more harsher than he had done. No offense to you, but to me, it's like having amateurs running the office, it's sickening, at least to say. To me, France and Germany have just destroyed their own political capital with America. I don't trust them anymore, not since they've been spewing out crap like anti-Americanism.

I don't see any anti-Europeanism here in America, then why is it OVER THERE, they have to bring it up?

Why is it every time something pops up, somebody feels a need to use race, anti-Americanism, anti-semitism, gender, sexual orientation, fundamentalism, and other "isms" cards? It's a dangerous thing to tinker around. For once, will somebody wise up and examine the case based on facts or merits rather than appearances?

With everything happened in last few months, I'm getting tired of cards being played out like a game of chess.

I just wish everybody would just stop f**king around with human lives, then say, "Oh, sorry, it's just a part of business, oops! I'm so sorry!"

The impending war with Iraq IS NOT a f**king political game, it is a WAR with DEADLY consequences. It is meant to remove a danger to our national security, it is not meant to be a game played out like business as usual!

This kind of line of reasoning is sickening to say at least.

Deltapooh, I certainly hope you don't say to a kid or teenager, "Sorry, guys, it's just a part of business, a part of political game that have to be played out. I'm just sorry."

Yes, unfortunately, it's reality of this world, but at least can you acknowledge this isn't a game, not for our American troops or Iraqi soldiers and civilians who will suffer the most?

Dan
 

Tzar

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Re: Graduating....

Originally posted by Cheetah772
Deltapooh and Tzar,

No wonder you both love ambigiusity and careful or thorough deliberation before taking action on something important enough to cost people's lives. Me, I prefer to go straight to the source of problem instead of talking to it to death.
The only thing I can tell you Cheetah is that reflexion and discussions (even lenghty ones) are the best way to truly resolve a problem or come to the best possible solution (or the least worse solution sometimes). That's politics and there is nothing bad about it. If politics would not exist, all countries would be waging war permanently against each other. Politics is the mean to resolve conflicts without resorting to violence.

For example, the fact that France is resisting the U.S. does not mean French people are America haters and are disgrateful for what America has done in the past for them. It just means that they want some things to be taken into account, and they want the attention of the American government towards this. They want to have some say into the military solution. It's perfectly natural, and as long as the discussion is going on, it's a sign of a healthy relationship.

They are too many trigger-happy people in our society.

It's OK if you want to be ruff and tuff...you know... be the kind of guy that walk the walk and talk the talk. And all these other macho cliches.

I was reading what you suggest Bush should tell to the Allies and it sounded like a really bad Clint Eastwood or Rambo movie :), with f**k and sissies and girlies exclamations at every 5 words.

That may be how it works in movies (and it makes the movies funny) but in real life it'a more serious. No American President would have any influence over foreign leaders with such language, although that could probably give them a good laugh :) Still, international politics is not a construction yard.

In any case, don't forget there are always two sides to a coin, and nobody can pretend to be holding the Truth with a capital T. Our world is not Black and White, it's all shades of grey. It is a complex world, and it does not reduce easily to slogans and four letter words.
 

Cheetah772

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Tzar....

Hello Tzar,


I was reading what you suggest Bush should tell to the Allies and it sounded like a really bad Clint Eastwood or Rambo movie , with f**k and sissies and girlies exclamations at every 5 words.
Would you like this one:

Bush Jr.: "I have heard about your statements that were rather hostile toward my country, is this true?"
French and German Leaders: "We neither confirm nor deny our statements, it is of your opinion, sir."
Bush: "Well, I have you guys on television saying this or that that were deemed hostile to my country, how do you guys respond to this?"
F & G leaders: "What television, is it yours or ours?"
Bush Jr.: "Of course, both televisions."
F & G leaders: "How do you know this?"
Bush: "Your teleivision companies broadcasted your statements, and here in America, we have CNN and other news companies recording your statements, that's how I know."
F & G. leaders: "But it could be fabricated by your guys, our people could try to undermine our leadership, so it can't be confirmed, sorry."
Bush: "But we have your faces and profile on recordings, I do know it's you guys, not imposters, certainly you don't do that kind of stuff over there in your countries."
F & G. leaders: "No, you got it wrong, we can't confirm or deny anything, what you may have heard or not, we don't know anything about it."
Bush: "How can you confirm or deny this? It has to be one of these choices -- you can't have both, sir. There has to be an answer to my question."
F & G. leaders: "You'll have to check it with our intelligence agencies, but we wouldn't dream of sharing such sensitive information to you, sir."
Bush: "But, I had my guy, Mr. Powell, sharing some info on why--"

F & G. leaders hung up on Bush.

Or There is a Scenario B:

Bush Jr. called both French and German leaders on phone:

Bush: "Did you say some hostile statements about my country? Yes or No only, please."
French and German leaders: "Well, you see, it's--"
Bush Jr.: "Listen to me very carefully, yes or no, please, I don't want to hear anything else....just yes or no, please!"
F & G. leaders: "Be reasonable, it's complicated, we have to explain to you this....will you just please listen to us--"
Bush Jr. cut in: "No, no, no. Yes or no? Which is it?"
F & G. leaders: "Well, it's--"
Bush cut in again: "Goddamnit, you both guys, yes or no for one more time, which is it?"
F & G. leaders: "Sir, please--"
Bush: "No, I'll take it as a yes, guys. Thanks for confirmation."
F & G. leaders: "Wait!"

Bush hung up his phone on them. A problem solved.

There you have it, now, Clint or Rambo bites don't sound bad, do they? :)
 

Deltapooh

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Cheetah772, respectfully.

First, I've flown to Fort Carson, Co. to see some troops off including my uncle. So no, it's not a game to me. If it were, I'd already have hit the "restart" button around twelve years ago. So I've faced down soldiers who I'm asking to go out and risk their *ss for what really is a political screw up.

So what is France and Germany doing to block a war Iraq? Nothing really.

Germany could deny Vth Corps permission to move forces, or simply expel them. Both countries could bring up a Resolution condemning the US as creating aggression against Iraq. There are other extreme measures.

You have the right to your opinion. However, a diplomats job is not to wage or even start a war. Their primary task is to find solutions.

Maybe if we Americans would listen more and stump and shoot less, we'll see the world is not against us. They just want to get their point across. Tragically, most people, including myself at times, appear unwilling to even listen.

So, if you want the truth Cheetah, you're gonna have to do some searching. You'll likely find Germany and France only want to protect their own interest. That's not much different from you and I.
 

markoy

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Originally posted by Dog 1





are you saying that mine is not Real?

your just a wimp! go back to drinking wine and jacking off and leave the real warfare to the real Men
:D :p :p :p :p
How can you possibly call me a wimp ? Stupid boy. If I need jacking off I'll give you a call and you can pop around you little rent boy. I am an ex-soldier and have seen more action than you ever will armchair general. :clown: Thats u clown boy
 

Dog 1

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Originally posted by markoy


How can you possibly call me a wimp ? Stupid boy. If I need jacking off I'll give you a call and you can pop around you little rent boy. I am an ex-soldier and have seen more action than you ever will armchair general. :clown: Thats u clown boy

F*ck off Euro trash!

:p :p :p :p
 

Dog 1

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Originally posted by markoy


A-typical US aggressive response. LOL


Tut tut tut.....cry baby.
so your an ex-soldier in who's army? action? Right...... where.. the bar? your just a cry baby so get bent you wanker!!!!







:p :p :p :p :p :p
 

markoy

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My my...you are a rude little boy aren't you. I guess I must of hit a nerve with my rent boy comments, sorry I guess it's obvious to most of us. Don't worry though I am sure there is councilling available for people like you.

I particularly like you aggression. Does everyone else like it ? Most people feel uncomfortable around aggressive people, like bullies or ignorant people. Ignorant people like getting aggressive when they can't think of anything else to say. Oh yes I am talking about verbal aggression as it is quite apparent to all that whoever rights this trash is no man, maybe a woman but definately no man. :cheeky: :cheeky: :cheeky:
 

Dog 1

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Originally posted by markoy
My my...you are a rude little boy aren't you. I guess I must of hit a nerve with my rent boy comments, sorry I guess it's obvious to most of us. Don't worry though I am sure there is councilling available for people like you.

I particularly like you aggression. Does everyone else like it ? Most people feel uncomfortable around aggressive people, like bullies or ignorant people. Ignorant people like getting aggressive when they can't think of anything else to say. Oh yes I am talking about verbal aggression as it is quite apparent to all that whoever rights this trash is no man, maybe a woman but definately no man. :cheeky: :cheeky: :cheeky:

With your fixation about calling people "boy" I am lead to believe that YOU are probably the little boy. And as such, it seems as if you are the rude one; your mama obviously never taught you how to speak to your elders... ah well, I guess you can't expect that much from little fascist punks like you, I doubt you have the brain capacity to even figure out what you're pissed at me for without re-reading the whole thread, but one thing that is clear to me, and as you say probably everyone else too, is that you're one of those sexually frustrated cretins who actually believes that 1. anyone gives a sh*t what little schoolyard names you call them 2. anyone cares to hear your pointless whining 3. that a country that has been the most successful in the world in nearly every area for over a century ought to pander to your opinions. You, and people like you, are just jealous. And about that aggression thing you're trying to displacec from yourself to me, if you can't handle a little argument, what good are you at real fighting? I bet you were a freaking typist in your little puny army. Oh, wait, you can't even do that right... well, whatever, I'll let you get back to your sad little world.

:p :p :p :p
 

Deltapooh

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Dog 1 and Markoy, this is kind of getting out of hand. How about we call a truce. Your comments are not completely driven by anger. No one is a kid and we're all heartbreakers. If there are virgins among us, I tip my hat to them for being a more honorable person than me since I've willingly taking the A Train of immorality. (Hell I probably ride it so much I have a seat reserved.)

So lets return our energy to creating long, intelligent, difficult to debate with posts. If anyone ticks you take my advice and type your "respectful to others" reply with your middle fingers!
 

markoy

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Originally posted by Dog 1

You, and people like you, are just jealous
Ha ha ha aha haah hah hah ah hah ah hahhahhah hah hah hah

:p :p :p
 

Wolf

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Dog 1, please could you stop posting insults, I thought this forum was for intelligent debate. Personally, I disagree with Marko's views but am still offended by your replies to him.
 

Dan Neely

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Dog1: I have to agree with Wolf and Deltapooh, your comments in this thread are just as juvenile as Markoy's. Even if you think he's an idiot don't sink to his level.
 

markoy

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Originally posted by Dan Neely
Dog1: I have to agree with Wolf and Deltapooh, your comments in this thread are just as juvenile as Markoy's. Even if you think he's an idiot don't sink to his level.
????? What ???? So when did I start calling people 'wanker' ?
 

markoy

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Originally posted by Rooster
Please Stay on topic, personal attacks will not be tolerated....

:stop:
Why be so general - it was Dog 1, so chuck him out.
 
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