Framing the difference

Sparafucil3

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The last bastion of the Republican Party.
And calling EVERYONE that disagreed with President Obama a racists was simply well-founded understanding of the English language. -- jim
 

DWPetros

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My answers will be based on your premise that things are 'irreparable'.

You are assuming that everybody should come to the same conclusion on you...and if they don't they obviously don't see things as clearly as you do. Regardless what is irreparable about this?

You need to say why if you claim it is irreparable.

If it's a violation then he should be held accountable. Regardless...this is hardly irreparable.

Do you have a direct comms link into the minds of all the world leaders? Otherwise these are just talking points...and hardly irreparable for the next president to fix.
Yes...you do need to say why if you claim it is irreparable.

The system said no obstruction but you are unhappy since it wasn't the result you were looking for. But again...none of this is irreparable.

This division started before Trump...and if you can't see or admit to that...well there is no since in debating that point. Is this irreparable? Possibly...but it is not solely the fault of a three-year president. You might want to expand your field of view and see who/what is really responsible for this.

I'm ready to listen.
Thanks, Jim.
It's difficult in this venue to properly answer your comments. And I agree that arguing isn't productive. Many of your comments have to do with the issue of repair. I'm pretty pessimistic about what's happening and think there are times when institutions degenerate and don't come back so easily. I think we're seeing this now unfortunately.

I see Trump more as an 'accelerator' of the degeneration process. He didn't initially cause the process; that was started before him. His presidency is causing a great deal of degeneration to the presidency, the application of the constitution, the country's position in the world, and domestically. There are too many examples of this to name (his lying, his abuse of power, etc.).

But what disturbs me the most and that which disturbs so many others is how he has gotten away with all this. I'm disturbed not as much about Trump but by those who actually think he's doing a good job, is a decent man, and is worthy of their most devoted, slavish praise and obedience. (if anyone had paid attention in the 80's, 90's, 00's, Trump was a known con, terrible businessman, and blustering narcissist. Just ask a New Yorker), They're the very type of people who follow any demagogue, any cult leader, any dictator. They scare me. They should scare anyone who values democracy and freedom. I just don't get them. Do you?

I too am ready to listen.
 

JimWhite

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I’m hoping you’re just being sarcastic and you’re not actually this dumb. I won’t hold my breath, though.
Does it really matter what my answer to this would be?
 

Morbii

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To quote one of the great minds here on the forum...
I thank you for your compliment, but you don’t understand the nature of the quote, clearly.

I’ve seen self-professed victims, such as yourself, whine about being called a racist here, for example, when no one is doing so. Must be a boy who cried wolf thing.

While I’m sure someone has blanket called all people that ever disagreed with Obama a racist (nevermind that that is every person on the planet in one way or another), I haven’t seen it.

Yes, there’s a handful of people that’ll overuse the word racist. They are probably a tiny fraction of the people that will do extreme mental gymnastics to keep trump’s dick hard. I live in the thick of it, and I don’t know a single SJW. I do know a few trumpists in this area in real life that are ignorant as pie, though. One of which is PROUD of this fact,
 
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Morbii

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And calling EVERYONE that disagreed with President Obama a racists was simply well-founded understanding of the English language. -- jim
I would actually like to amend my original statement to say Trumpists. Though, like you’ve alluded to, I’m not sure there’s much of a place for the reasonable any longer, such as yourself.
 

Chas

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Referencing post #9.

Obama did at least 15 of these.
Trump did not do all this. Talk about watching nothing but liberal media and being completely influenced by a partisan narrative.

Ya know, everyone who disagrees with the liberals/leftists is called a racist or a Russian. If you want to know where the division in our country is coming from, just look in the mirror.
 

Brian W

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Obama did at least 15 of these.
Ahh, the moral relativism of the atheist right. Obama did 15 of those 40, so it's okay if my guy does all 40.

If you want to see the division in America, here it is: there are those that believe the law was made to protect them, but not constrain them, while the law should constrain anyone they don't agree with, but not protect those people. They are conservatives. There is no belief in equal justice because there is no belief in equality. There is no belief in democracy because that requires equality.
 

Sand Bar Bill

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Referencing post #9.

Obama did at least 15 of these.
Trump did not do all this. Talk about watching nothing but liberal media and being completely influenced by a partisan narrative.

Ya know, everyone who disagrees with the liberals/leftists is called a racist or a Russian. If you want to know where the division in our country is coming from, just look in the mirror.
I literally have not heard anyone who disagreed with a "leftist" be called a "Russian". Although Russia certainly seems to like Republicans over Democrats per our own intelligence agencies. I wonder why?

As to "racist", the Republican party certainly as a party has enacted election laws designed to work against minorities. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/how-voter-id-laws-discriminate-study/517218/
 

DWPetros

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An article here about Trump and his awful ways (also see below)*: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/443999-a-reality-based-game-for-trump-watchers-name-that-fallacy

"As a candidate and as president, Mr. Trump has scorned and spurned many political norms. But he has, “bigly,” reinforced already pervasive perceptions that politics is a corrupt profession, in which politicians say just about anything to promote themselves and their agendas.

As of April 27, The Washington Post tallied more than 10,000 false or misleading statements by the president in his first 27 months in office.

Less well known is Trump’s extensive use of logical fallacies. And so, with hopes of enhancing political literacy, I hereby offer readers an abbreviated course on errors in reasoning that draws its examples from our Communicator-in-Chief."

by: Glenn C. Altschuler is the Thomas and Dorothy Litwin Professor of American Studies at Cornell University. He is the co-author (with Stuart Blumin) of Rude Republic: Americans and Their Politics in the Nineteenth Century. Sidney Tarrow is the Maxwell Upson Emeritus Professor of Government at Cornell University. He is the co-editor (with David S. Meyer) of The Resistance: The Dawn of the Anti-Trump Opposition Movement.

* Yes, a picture does in truth say a thousand words. I mean, sh*t, how awful is it to mock a person with disabilities (Stop - no excuses here)? What sort of man does this? (let me answer - no good man would do this, but an overgrown, bratty shit-headed, spoiled child would) How on god's green earth are there adults who can support this sort of thing? If an 8th grader did this, he's be sent to detention. When Trump does it, he's elected President. What has happened here?

10957
 
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Morbii

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“I didn’t do that.”
“He was wrongly accused of doing that.”
“He is innocent. Deep state! Fuck the libtards!”


That’s what’s happened here.
 

DWPetros

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But all this is besides the point. The point is, I think the divide isn't about policy differences. That's too wonky. Something deeper here.

The reason for Trump's support is more about psychology - about how the brain works, how people think, not what. Trump and the conservative movement isn't about policy. (Note the lack thereof in Trump's speeches and rallies). It's about the fear that triggers that part of the brain that is sensitive to fear. (Note the constant reference to enemies, traitors, invaders, etc)
There are too many studies to site, but here's a few.


This isn't to say conservatives are bad, or that liberals don't react to fear. It's to say the conservative mind is more susceptible to responding to threatening situations (terrorists, criminals, etc.) than liberals - and naturally move towards finding ways to alleviate their fears (by electing authoritarian, strong, violent types?) It's just the way conservatives roll. I don't have to like it.

So, as things get scarier out there, expect to see even more movement to the authoritarian right. I don't look forward to that.
 

Brian W

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Obama is wrong: Dems are not #TooFarLeft

For the first time in history, the ultra-rich -- the 400 richest families -- paid a lower tax rate than the bottom 50% of the population in 2018. Also last year, Amazon paid no federal taxes on more than $11 billion in profit, and its employees, like many across the nation, face brutal working conditions. Amazon maintains the company "provides a safe, quality work environment in which associates are the heart and soul of the customer experience," according to a spokeswoman.
 

DWPetros

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Obama is an apologist for the oligarchy. Lets not get too radical here - might upset the bosses.
 

zgrose

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Can we ever move on to discussing the merits of legislation around here?
 

Brian W

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Which bill do you want to discuss? The next big one is the NAFTA replacement agreement, although technically it isn't legislation I think. Or do you want to discuss state legislation?
 
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