Fortified Buildings and Guns

[The Purist]

I will be playing a game soon with Fortified Buildings. My opponent is relatively new to the full game and threw me a curve ball on Fortified Buildings and Guns.

My understanding has always been that you cannot remove a Gun from a fortified building but it has been suggested the following applies only to Guns in upper levels so fortified. I'm quoting most of rule for context:

B23.93 Guns: A Fortified Building differs from a building in that any ART/AT/INF Guns </= 76mm may set up in a fortified upper level of a multi-level stone Fortified Building. Such a weapon cannot be moved from that Location during play... No 5/8" weapon counter may be moved into a Fortified Building during play.

The question concerns the phrase "Such a weapon" in the second sentence, implying that this restriction applies only to Guns in upper level Locations and not to Guns in ground level Locations.

I'll admit, it has given me pause and now I am questioning my understanding of the rule. So,... have I lost my mind, or have I missed some additional clarification?

 

[von Marwitz]

My understanding matches yours. But I wouldn't bet my life on it that this is the correct interpretation.

Interesting - let's see what the hive-mind comes up with...

von Marwitz

 

[klasmalmstrom]

B23.93:
"A Fortified Building differs from a building in that any ART/AT/INF Guns ≤ 76mm may set up in the fortified upper levels of a multi-level stone Fortified Building. Such a weapon cannot be moved from that Location during play..."

I read it as if the red refer to each other and also the blue.

 

[The Purist]

So,... are you saying the red and blue are referring to the same issue (no Pushing)? Or, the red and blue are exclusive issues and a gun on the ground level could be pushed to a new Location (even if one could not be Pushed into a Fort. Location)?

Just want to be sure.

Apologies for being so dense.

 

[Larry]

Any type/target size may set up on the ground floor and may be moved out of the ground floor but not into the ground floor of a fortified building location.
Any size ART/AT/INF gut may be set up in an upper level fortified location but cannot move from that location during play.

A Fortified Building differs from a building in that any ART/AT/INF Guns ≤ 76mm may set up in the fortified upper levels of a multi-level stone Fortified Building. Such a weapon cannot be moved from that Location during play. See C2.6 for the minimum distance at which such a Gun can fire at a different-level target. Any type/target size of Gun may set up in the ground level of a Fortified Building but may not fire at Aerial targets or use Indirect Fire. No 5/8" weapon counter may be moved into a Fortified Building during play.

That's how I read it.

 

[Eagle4ty]

So,... are you saying the red and blue are referring to the same issue (no Pushing)? Or, the red and blue are exclusive issues and a gun on the ground level could be pushed to a new Location (even if one could not be Pushed into a Fort. Location)?

Just want to be sure.

Apologies for being so dense.

In as much as the rule goes on to make a special statement later about guns at ground level, "Any type/target size of Gun may set up in the ground level of a Fortified Building but may not fire at Aerial targets or use Indirect Fire." I read it that the statements you noted apply only to guns set up at a higher level. I concur with Larry on this one.

 

[jyoung]

Possibly the common memory of not being able to move a Gun from any fortified location comes from Red Barricades, where it is quite explicit: "A Gun/AFV setup in a Pillbox or Fortified Building Location may never be moved during the course of that CG".

 

[The Purist]

I'm beginning to think that I may have had the wrong understanding for quite some time. I don't know if it has mattered much over the years as this particular case is rare outside of CGs. As jyoung notes, in some (most/all?) CGs, Guns in Fortified Locations are not allowed to move at all (ie: Hatten in Flames). In fact they can't even 'Shift' between Set-Up areas unless Hooked-Up in KGP and I am sure this is the same in Pegasus Bridge, etc.

This may have contributed to the idea in my head over the years that a gun could not be Pushed "out" of a Fortified Location.