Forgotten War Q & A.

[Blackcloud6]

When a Late War KATUSA 4-4-6 squad suffers ELR failure, is it replaced with Early War 3-3-6 KATUSA Squad? If not, what happens to it?

 

[ibncalb]

When a Late War KATUSA 4-4-6 squad suffers ELR failure, is it replaced with Early War 3-3-6 KATUSA Squad? If not, what happens to it?

Good question. I understand it that, date dependant, there is only ever one type of KATUSA possible, so as per W2.13, ELR/HOB can never change a KATUSA into a non KATUSA, so I guess they disrupt (its already noted that they fanatic if they BH).

 

[Augie]

A19.13 Replacement applies. There is nothing that says A19.13 is suspended nor ignored for KATUSA, nor do KATUSA have underlined morale. Therefore, the KATUSA 4-4-6 2nd line is replaced by a KATUSA 3-3-6 conscript if it fails ELR. Conversely, an early KW KATUSA conscript that battle hardens would become a 2nd line. The time frame comment in my opinion is what should typically be seen for the at-start OB during those time periods (particularly for scenario designers). From a logical point and historical of view, the KATUSA where essentially S.Korean liason troops embedded w/ the US military. Early in the war, the US was taking any S.Koreans that could fog a mirror. As the war went on, they provided rudimentary training before embedding them in US formations. FYI-Even today, US Army units stationed in S.Korea still have KATUSAs as part of their organization.

 

[Stever]

The BAZ 50 has a firepower # of 12. When would this be applicable? The charts and rules don't seem to updated for this SW on that part. The HE Equivalency still shows an 8. The HEAT To Kill Table has been updated for the BAZ 50. I know an ATR can fire without the To Hit directly at infantry, but I don't think a Bazooka can do that.

 

[Larry]

W 2.131 EARLY KW KATUSA: In scenarios set in
9/50 through 10/51, KATUSA MMC are represented by 3-3-6 squads (and their 1-2-6 HS). They
have an ELR of 2 [EXC: 1 at Night; E1.22] (regardless of that specified for other UN Forces in the OB). Early KW KATUSA MMC and U.S. leaders are Allied Troops (A10.7).

2.132 LATE KW KATUSA: In scenarios set in
11/51 through 7/53, KATUSA MMC are represented by 4-4-6/3-3-6 squads (and their respective
HS).

Through 10/51, the KATUSA are 3.3.6. The 4-4-6 are not available.

After 10/51, the KATUSA have both types available for E:LR and BH.

 

[ibncalb]

The BAZ 50 has a firepower # of 12. When would this be applicable? The charts and rules don't seem to updated for this SW on that part. The HE Equivalency still shows an 8. The HEAT To Kill Table has been updated for the BAZ 50. I know an ATR can fire without the To Hit directly at infantry, but I don't think a Bazooka can do that.

The 12 would be used if you successfully hit infantry in a building etc.

There is a FW rule (from memory) that SCW can also shoot at infantry in 'non traditional HEAT terrain' at 1FP. Can't remember which rule though

 

[Stever]

From what I can read, when a bazooka fires at infantry in a stone building or behind a stone wall, and you achieve a hit, you use the chart C8.31 for HE Equivalency. C8.31 says all BAZ use 8 HE Equivalency. I can't find an update in the FW charts and I am looking at the latest version of the Electronic Rulebook. It makes very logical sense that you would use 12 as the HE Equivalency, but I can't find a rule that says that.

 

[MrHonus]

From what I can read, when a bazooka fires at infantry in a stone building or behind a stone wall, and you achieve a hit, you use the chart C8.31 for HE Equivalency. C8.31 says all BAZ use 8 HE Equivalency. I can't find an update in the FW charts and I am looking at the latest version of the Electronic Rulebook. It makes very logical sense that you would use 12 as the HE Equivalency, but I can't find a rule that says that.

If you look at the Infantry and Support Weapon Examples you can see the FP value for Psks vs Infantry (12). The Counter layout is the same as for a Bazooka (as can be seen by looking at the counter images in the BAZ rule (C13.4 and 13.48).

 

[Eagle4ty]

From what I can read, when a bazooka fires at infantry in a stone building or behind a stone wall, and you achieve a hit, you use the chart C8.31 for HE Equivalency. C8.31 says all BAZ use 8 HE Equivalency. I can't find an update in the FW charts and I am looking at the latest version of the Electronic Rulebook. It makes very logical sense that you would use 12 as the HE Equivalency, but I can't find a rule that says that.

Look in Ch H FW Ordnance Note #22, NATO Common Ordnance Notes.

 

[Stever]

Look in Ch H FW Ordnance Note #22, NATO Common Ordnance Notes.

I reviewed the Note #22 but it only referred to the AP To Kill number. I can't find anything there regarding the HE Equivalency. It makes sense that it would be a 12 as it uses a larger shell but C8.31 says it is still just an 8. I believe the C8.31 table needs an update to reflect the BAZ50 but there doesn't seem to be one yet.

 

[Augie]

I reviewed the Note #22 but it only referred to the AP To Kill number. I can't find anything there regarding the HE Equivalency. It makes sense that it would be a 12 as it uses a larger shell but C8.31 says it is still just an 8. I believe the C8.31 table needs an update to reflect the BAZ50 but there doesn't seem to be one yet.

The counter itself has 12-5 (meaning 12 FP equivalency, 5 range). Even though table C8.31 does not reflect anything for BAZ50, the counter is clear. I agree that C8.31 was not retroactively updated to reflect the new BAZ50. If it is something that is irksome or not clear enough, send a Perry sez question. Besides an answer, the question to MMP may also result in official errata to the C8.31 table.

 

[Paul John]

W7.1 (CPVA) There are no Conscript/Green MMC, but 2nd Line squads that suffer ELR Replacement are not Disrupted.
W7.27 (HS) All armed CPVA HS break (and if 2nd Line it becomes Disrupted when suffering ELR Replacement)...

I think I get this. The Full squads don't disrupt but the HS's do. Seems odd to me tho.
Is that right?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Is that right?

You have it correct....as per the rules you quoted.

 

[wrongway149]

A19.13 Replacement applies. There is nothing that says A19.13 is suspended nor ignored for KATUSA, nor do KATUSA have underlined morale. Therefore, the KATUSA 4-4-6 2nd line is replaced by a KATUSA 3-3-6 conscript if it fails ELR. Conversely, an early KW KATUSA conscript that battle hardens would become a 2nd line. The time frame comment in my opinion is what should typically be seen for the at-start OB during those time periods (particularly for scenario designers). From a logical point and historical of view, the KATUSA where essentially S.Korean liason troops embedded w/ the US military. Early in the war, the US was taking any S.Koreans that could fog a mirror. As the war went on, they provided rudimentary training before embedding them in US formations. FYI-Even today, US Army units stationed in S.Korea still have KATUSAs as part of their organization.

I am not sure which units used the most KATUSA soldiers, but in all of my research on the 1st Cavalry Division in Korea (at least 12 solid sources)-- there was not a single mention of such troops.

 

[Augie]

I am not sure which units used the most KATUSA soldiers, but in all of my research on the 1st Cavalry Division in Korea (at least 12 solid sources)-- there was not a single mention of such troops.

according to this 1974 article, several hundred were assigned to the 1st cavalry in August 1950. link below

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1987235#:~:text=And%20In%20mid%2DAugust%2C%201950,fillers%20to%20the%20other%20three

 

[wrongway149]

according to this 1974 article, several hundred were assigned to the 1st cavalry in August 1950. link below

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1987235#:~:text=And%20In%20mid%2DAugust%2C%201950,fillers%20to%20the%20other%20three

Looks like the 7th ID got enough to make an impact in scenario design terms.

 

[Augie]

Looks like the 7th ID got enough to make an impact in scenario design terms.

It does appear the 7th ID got several thousand KATUSAs in August 1950. Also, per the article, only the 24th, 25th, and 3rd Infantry Divisions organized KATUSA as independent formations of squad or platoon size. Everyone else was using the 'buddy' system of integrating KATUSAs into units. I think one can easily portray any US Army squad with 1-3 KATUSAs out of its normal 9-man allotment as a normal US squad (but probably not elite, particularly early in the war). Squads that got 4-6 KATUSAs assigned (likely the 7th ID), using the US 2nd line squad to represent that situation would be appropriate. Actual KATUSA squad counters would more likely show up in the 24th, 25th and 3rd Infantry Divisions scenario OBs. Anywhere else, they probably just fleshed out the squad (or provided simple manual labor like ammo/ration re-supply). I think absence of KATUSA squads in any scenarios, particularly if not depicting the 24th, 25th, 3rd, or even 7th ID, is perfectly valid.

 

[Bill Kohler]

Forgotten War Errata

Charts & tables
W. National Capabilities Chart (Chapter Divider): KMC entry, in the “ORDNANCE TH# Color OBA ACCESS FINAL ACC dr” column, change “9/50+: Black” to “8/50+: Black”.

W. Korea Terrain Chart: in row “W1.33 Steep Hills Road” in the “Terrain (Rule)” column, “Steep Hills Road” should be in black—not red.

These two errata appear to be missing from the ASLRB Errata file on the MMP website.

(I note that the Table errata from J10, p. 57, also seems to be missing.)