FKAC Reprint

[Portal]

Perhaps, an old-hat argument, however:

The Starter Kits are selling like gang busters and are bringing new players into the fold. Most of them are sticking to the SKs, but that's okay as there are some who graduate to the full game.

If this is true (would love to see some player data from credible sources), I'd call the SKs an outright failure from their original design intent. The SK concept was supported by the ASL community as a tool to get players on the direct path to playing full ASL, not an ASL-lite substitute game. I don't want to see "some" graduating to the full game. I want to see "most".

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

Coming from a Yank, this is hilarious, great stuff, tell me, do you wear a Canadian shoulder patch when you go traveling?

There really is nothing more to say.

Translation: "I have no cogent response"

 

[RobZagnut]

If this is true (would love to see some player data from credible sources), I'd call the SKs an outright failure from their original design intent. The SK concept was supported by the ASL community as a tool to get players on the direct path to playing full ASL, not an ASL-lite substitute game. I don't want to see "some" graduating to the full game. I want to see "most".

Why do you want to see most? How does it affect you?

Sooner or later you're going to have to come to the realization that ASL is not Monopoly. Not everyone can or is willing to play it. Many people are perfectly happy playing the SKs and don't have the time and/or the ability to go further. There's nothing wrong with that. Much better for them to play the SKs than no MMP game at all. MMP is getting a good revenue stream from the SKs and the SKs ability to put more money in their coffers only helps us ASLers, because it helps keep MMP viable.

The key point is that the SKs are serving their design intent... to bring new players to ASL. You cannot dispute that one bit, because there have been numerous examples on GameSquad and C-World where guys have mentioned that very fact.

 

[MadDog_CDN]

Translation: "I have no cogent response"

No, why get into an argument with someone who believes that all I want to do is complain, if you knew the trouble I have gone through. As for brushing all Canucks with that statement, guess that just shows you are an ignorant yank, who thinks he is better then everyone else on this beautiful planet.

 

[Portal]

Getting full ASL products to market will also put funds in MMP's pockets. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the SKs to go away. But a bunch of people playing only ASL-lite seeking fair customer support from MMP is taking away from MMP's ability to support and deliver new products & re-prints to full ASL players. Let's not continue to delude ourselves that MMP can be all things to all customers when they choose not to make this business their full-time jobs.

 

[Psycho]

Getting full ASL products to market will also put funds in MMP's pockets. Don't get me wrong, I don't want the SKs to go away. But a bunch of people playing only ASL-lite seeking fair customer support from MMP is taking away from MMP's ability to support and deliver new products & re-prints to full ASL players. Let's not continue to delude ourselves that MMP can be all things to all customers when they choose not to make this business their full-time jobs.

How can you continue to support such a poorly run company?

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

No, why get into an argument with someone who believes that all I want to do is complain,

I don't believe that; even through the internet, I can sense the frustration; what I don't understand is the giving up part.

if you knew the trouble I have gone through.

No, I don't, nor do I pretend to; as I've said, for myself I'm not in the same boat as newer players. Still, the 'newer generation' has a decidely more "entitlement bent" than I remember when I was trying to fill holes in MY collection; I was one of the ones who didn't get a copy of-indeed, I wasn't even aware it had been released-the first printing of Doomed Battalions.

As for brushing all Canucks with that statement, guess that just shows you are an ignorant yank,

Perhaps somewhat insensitive of me, I'll agree; seeing HWSNBN2 and another of Canadian extraction tag-teaming did seem a bit...ironic...it was, indeed, a swipe and an uncalled-for one.

who thinks he is better then everyone else on this beautiful planet.

Hardly, though swapping sniper shots will tend to escalate things if both parties are of a mind.

Still, what does griping accomplish? I don't for a moment infer meek acceptance, but encourage patience. Things are being worked on, though they are taking time. MMP has taken steps to minimise that time factor, though I doubt they will ever be able to satisfy everyone.

The realities of their business-the wide range of game lines they carry and customers for each and every one of those lines-means that some sensibilities are going to get nicked along the way. Each seperate group thinks, in the main, of themselves and how they are the center of the gaming universe. Do you really feel your claim on MMPs resources and time differ fundamentally than customers of The Gamers line? Hell, I'm still looking for a copy of Perryville: you want to talk about difficult or about the rather unlikelihood of something EVER getting reprinted? So, I faithfully cruise the halls of that most decadent church, eBay, to see if I can score a decent copy...someday, I shall...

 

[SlyFrog]

Perhaps, an old-hat argument, however:

The Starter Kits are selling like gang busters and are bringing new players into the fold. Most of them are sticking to the SKs, but that's okay as there are some who graduate to the full game.

If this is true (would love to see some player data from credible sources) . . . .

This struck me as incredibly funny in juxtaposition to the "How the hell did MMP sell out of Beyond Valor so fast" thread. :laugh:

 

[MadDog_CDN]

I don't believe that; even through the internet, I can sense the frustration; what I don't understand is the giving up part.



No, I don't, nor do I pretend to; as I've said, for myself I'm not in the same boat as newer players. Still, the 'newer generation' has a decidely more "entitlement bent" than I remember when I was trying to fill holes in MY collection; I was one of the ones who didn't get a copy of-indeed, I wasn't even aware it had been released-the first printing of Doomed Battalions.



Perhaps somewhat insensitive of me, I'll agree; seeing HWSNBN2 and another of Canadian extraction tag-teaming did seem a bit...ironic...it was, indeed, a swipe and an uncalled-for one.



Hardly, though swapping sniper shots will tend to escalate things if both parties are of a mind.

Still, what does griping accomplish? I don't for a moment infer meek acceptance, but encourage patience. Things are being worked on, though they are taking time. MMP has taken steps to minimise that time factor, though I doubt they will ever be able to satisfy everyone.

The realities of their business-the wide range of game lines they carry and customers for each and every one of those lines-means that some sensibilities are going to get nicked along the way. Each seperate group thinks, in the main, of themselves and how they are the center of the gaming universe. Do you really feel your claim on MMPs resources and time differ fundamentally than customers of The Gamers line? Hell, I'm still looking for a copy of Perryville: you want to talk about difficult or about the rather unlikelihood of something EVER getting reprinted? So, I faithfully cruise the halls of that most decadent church, eBay, to see if I can score a decent copy...someday, I shall...

Yea, I think I shot my mouth off a little quickly on that one, so I also need to apologize.

You see we both have some of the same gripes, don't knock us for being vocal, though I do generally keep quite about it, complaining really doesn't get much done. It is aggravating though to see great new product coming out, and being unable to see a way to get one's hands on things needed to fully play it.

As for MMP, hey, I think they do well, great service, nice, polite, and quick to replace any damaged goods. Just wish they had deeper pockets when it comes to keeping up the ASL core stuff.

As for the economics of it all, yea, I understand it (Micheal), doesn't mean I like it though.

 

[Dave68124]

Perhaps, an old-hat argument, however:



If this is true (would love to see some player data from credible sources), I'd call the SKs an outright failure from their original design intent. The SK concept was supported by the ASL community as a tool to get players on the direct path to playing full ASL, not an ASL-lite substitute game. I don't want to see "some" graduating to the full game. I want to see "most".

Hold on for a moment. Let someone who is in this boat address this. I played Squad Leader many moons ago and was looking to get back into ASL. The SK's are perfect. I also purchase ASL stuff with the hope of one day getting back into ASL.

Anyone ever wonder what the biggest hurdle is outside of time? How about the community take a look at itself in the mirror and wonder who has played a game or two with a newbie to show them the ropes and do some teaching.

Outside of dropping some posts looking for a game which response is pretty limited, I don't see any kind of organized effort for people who play ASL to teach us newbies.

The ASL RB is clearly not set up to teach anyone anything. More of a reference guide format. Whereas the SK RB's at least give someone a fighting chance to work their way through it. Moving people from the SK's to ASL is not MMP's problem, it is the ASL community as a whole who has this responsibility.

 

[Portal]

Dave68124,

Great Qs. From my understanding, pretty much every active ASL club around North America welcomes "newbies" and SK playing players who want to learn full ASL. Just contact the local club in your area and I'm positive the organizers will put you on the right track.

But let's back up the truck for a sec. In my case, as an example from the late 1990s when no SKs were available, I learned ASL cold with a self-purchased RB and a little bit of light exposure to regular SL. It is possible to learn ASL with no SKs and little outside support. But of course the latter make it much easier.

IMO, moving people from SKs to ASL is equally the ASL player base as well as the "newbie"'s responsibility. The newbie can make his own lunch also, to the best of his or her ability.

BTW - For the record, I play with newbies as often as newbies ask me for a game.

 

[stuart62]

Hold on for a moment. Let someone who is in this boat address this. I played Squad Leader many moons ago and was looking to get back into ASL. The SK's are perfect. I also purchase ASL stuff with the hope of one day getting back into ASL.

Anyone ever wonder what the biggest hurdle is outside of time? How about the community take a look at itself in the mirror and wonder who has played a game or two with a newbie to show them the ropes and do some teaching.

Outside of dropping some posts looking for a game which response is pretty limited, I don't see any kind of organized effort for people who play ASL to teach us newbies.

The ASL RB is clearly not set up to teach anyone anything. More of a reference guide format. Whereas the SK RB's at least give someone a fighting chance to work their way through it. Moving people from the SK's to ASL is not MMP's problem, it is the ASL community as a whole who has this responsibility.

I had SL/COI/COD in the 80s and didn't get the ASLRB and BV until 2001, both 2nd edition but didn't start playing regularly until last year when I found a club in London and went to a Tournament. Didn't get the SKs at all but coming from SL used the 8 steps Programmed Instruction approach from ASL Articles page on the MMP website. Would be happy to play some scenarios on VASL using this approach.

Further to earlier posts using Brits from other modules, I have Pegasus Bridge so have a few elite British Infantry and SW, have a few vehicles reprinted in AoO but no corresponding Chapter H, not interested in SK so will just wait for FKaC Reprint