First Fire

Paul John

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Hello all,
I am unclear about how maintaining ROF may affect subsequent first fire.
In the example, the 237 HS with MMG has just fired and broken the squad.
But he has retained ROF (and has fixed CA due to being in a building).
As I understand, that means he is not marked with a first fire counter.
11535
Now, if the 247 moves to V9, can the 237 shoot at him? Or is that still considered subsequent fire and hence makes the 237 subject to target limits?
What if the 247 moved (NAM) to U10 (out of the MMG CA) and let's pretend it is out of the 237's normal range. Permitted to fire inherent as first fire (1-2), or not permitted as subsequent first fire because out of normal range?
 

jrv

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Hello all,
I am unclear about how maintaining ROF may affect subsequent first fire.
In the example, the 237 HS with MMG has just fired and broken the squad.
But he has retained ROF (and has fixed CA due to being in a building).
As I understand, that means he is not marked with a first fire counter.
View attachment 11535
Now, if the 247 moves to V9, can the 237 shoot at him? Or is that still considered subsequent fire and hence makes the 237 subject to target limits?
What if the 247 moved (NAM) to U10 (out of the MMG CA) and let's pretend it is out of the 237's normal range. Permitted to fire inherent as first fire (1-2), or not permitted as subsequent first fire because out of normal range?
For the attack to be SFF the unit/weapon would have to be marked with a first fire counter. Since the MG & hs are not marked when the German moves to V9 either may fire away until marked. SFF is not synonymous with firing a second time if the weapon has ROF and ROF is maintained.

JR
 
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Binchois

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For the attack to be SFF the unit/weapon would have to be marked with a first fire counter. Since the MG & hs are not marked when the German moves to V9 either may fire away until marked. SFF is not synonymous with firing a second time if the weapon has ROF and ROF is maintained.

JR
I don't think this is correct, but I haven't checked the Q&As. According to Chapter A:

A7.352 A crew/HS/SMC that fires any SW/Gun loses its inherent FP until attacked/attacking in CC or the end of that Player Turn (whichever comes first) [EXC: 7.353].​
It seems simple. If the HS fires a SW, that HS is no longer free to First Fire its inherent FP. It doesn't say that the weapon has to be marked as First Fire-ed.
 

jrv

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I don't think this is correct, but I haven't checked the Q&As. According to Chapter A:

A7.352 A crew/HS/SMC that fires any SW/Gun loses its inherent FP until attacked/attacking in CC or the end of that Player Turn (whichever comes first) [EXC: 7.353].​
It seems simple. If the HS fires a SW, that HS is no longer free to First Fire its inherent FP. It doesn't say that the weapon has to be marked as First Fire-ed.
You are correct. The hs has committed to firing the MG.

JR
 

Paul John

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Wow, I had always thought that a unit firing a SW could still fire inherent as subsequent first fire. So the crew of a gun that is fired once and kept rof couldn't fire inherent. Amazing! I have done that wrong forever.
 

jrv

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Wow, I had always thought that a unit firing a SW could still fire inherent as subsequent first fire. So the crew of a gun that is fired once and kept rof couldn't fire inherent. Amazing! I have done that wrong forever.
It can fire inherent as SFF. It just can't fire as First Fire, which is what I said.

JR
 

Eagle4ty

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It can fire inherent as SFF. It just can't fire as First Fire, which is what I said.

JR
The rule doesn't say that. it loses its inherent FP until the end of that turn. Now if you're speaking of using a MG, yes he could S1F the MG but would still be unable to use his inherent FP but a crew manning ordnance could only intensive fire its non-SW ordnance if allowed to do so.
 

jrv

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The rule doesn't say that. it loses its inherent FP until the end of that turn. Now if you're speaking of using a MG, yes he could S1F the MG but would still be unable to use his inherent FP but a crew manning ordnance could only intensive fire its non-SW ordnance if allowed to do so.
A7.352 "A crew/HS/SMC that fires any SW/Gun loses its inherent FP until attacked/attacking in CC or the end of that Player Turn (whichever comes first) [EXC: 7.353]." A7.353 "In both of the above cases, Subsequent First Fire (8.3), FPF (8.31) and Final Fire (8.4) vs adjacent units retain halved Inherent FP for those attacks, (regardless of how they were used during First Fire)."

JR
 

fzmann

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Since ROF was maintained isn’t the CA counter unnecessary, and the SW could potentially fire anywhere regardless of CA in DFire?
 

jrv

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Since ROF was maintained isn’t the CA counter unnecessary, and the SW could potentially fire anywhere regardless of CA in DFire?
The CA counter applies during the remainder of the MPh. At the end of the MPh the CA counter is removed [A9.21], and the weapon can fire in any direction in the DFPh. That new direction may require a CA counter too if the weapon maintains ROF, although often this is unnecessary as the player fires the weapon until it runs out of ROF. But the player might do something more complicated (e.g. fire once for part of an encirclement, then fire other weapons before getting back to that weapon), so placing a new CA counter is not harmful and may be useful.

JR
 
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