First CMx2 FB or RT?

mooreshawnm

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Veteran of CMBB and looking to try the new games. I have tried the demos and like them all but have to start somewhere. Red Thunder or Final Blitzkrieg?
 

NUTTERNAME

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I would wait for the new storefront first...they may have a sale...
 

Elvis

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Veteran of CMBB and looking to try the new games. I have tried the demos and like them all but have to start somewhere. Red Thunder or Final Blitzkrieg?
If it were me and I had to pick one, I'd pick Final Blitzkrieg because the snow is modeled in a way that can't currently be done with Red Thunder. And also because I'm a punk who usually prefers the Western Front.

Alternately, try both demos and see if one appeals to you more than the other.
 

NUTTERNAME

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If you wait for the new storefront, there will probably be a new patch that includes both crunchy snow and fresh wispy snow.
 

NUTTERNAME

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I check in daily with 'Yelp'. I know it will feature both a snack stand, and also a gift shop when leaving.
 

NUTTERNAME

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; - )
Giggling is good for the BP
Here's the latest news...from over a year ago...

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/120172-brief-overview-of-where-cm-is-headed/?page=1

In semi-related news we're working hard on a new website, new store, and new Repository. It's been a while since we've overhauled these aspects of Battlefront and it's definitely time we did.
No time like the future...

In more ice related news...Eskimos have 4095 different words for types of ice...yet they drink their bourbon 'neat'...go figure...
 

Old Dog

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Sounds perfectly reasonable. They don't want it to be watered down, and getting it chilled generally doesn't present a problem. More readily portable, less likely to freeze, too.
 
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NUTTERNAME

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The Storefront is officially waiting for Upgrade 4.0 for some reason that I can't even fathom.

The Eskimos only have one word for 'Slippery Slope'...It is "Battlefront".
 

NUTTERNAME

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If I understand the 'management' over at BF, the following is the marching orders...

Upgrade 4.0 is the tail wagging the dog. The new storefront is 95% finished but somehow, 4.0 is stopping its completion. All new modules and 'packs' are dependant on owning 4.0. So, if you own CMFI, and want to buy the next module, you will HAVE to be at 4.0. That is, 4.0 is sort of an 'across the board Upgrade', and its drawing a line in the sand. I am not sure if it will somehow install on all CMX2 products, it sort of sounds like it will, but I can't say for sure. If you own the whole CMBN 'family', and JonS squiffs out another 'Battle-Pack', then you need to be at 4.0 also. Given the price of both, you must be a real JonS fan then. If you only own one Family, let's say CMRT, then unless they are promising a module anytime soon (ha!), you just might wait I guess. Unless you want to DL scenarios that are at "4.0" design level. So, the Suppository will have to state what Upgrade level along with all the other minutia.

I don't know if the 'features' they have hinted at are really that great. Or even if they are 'Features'. Most seem to deal with the editor and making scenarios. A good thing, for sure, but not sure why they are charging those features to people that don't design scenarios, etc. There is a 'follow' command and some sort of squad 'reorg' that I don't follow the logic on. Hopefully, there is much more than this. I can't wait to hear the price. I am a player at $4.0
 

NUTTERNAME

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A little clarification, I think....

Upgrade 4.0 will require Upgrade 3.0, unlike Upgrade 3.0 not necessarily requiring Upgrade 2.0. The latter was due to a limitation of our licensing software at the time. That's all been straightened out since.

Upgrade 4.0 is required for all new content being released, Modules and Packs, but not retroactively required for content that was previously released. Yes, new content is making use of the new AI features and so far the scenario designers and players are equating it to the leap forward of AI Triggers fond in Upgrade 3.0.

We will continue to refine the UI as we go and there a couple of UI improvements that I have not listed. However, we decided to put the emphasis on Upgrade 4.0 on gameplay. The new AI scripting improvements are definitely a part of that, but there's a couple of major things which I've not mentioned yet. Some involve new TacAI behaviors that people have been wanting to see since CMSF or, in one case, CMBO.

I envision that Upgrade 5.0 will be focused on UI improvements.

Steve
 

NUTTERNAME

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And the details post...

Here are some things are a bit better than hints
As you can see from this partial list of features, there's a little bit of everything in Upgrade 4.0 as there was in the previous Upgrades:

* New vehicle follow capability. Yes, yes, I can hear the CMBO customers saying “FINALLY!” since they were the first to ask for it’s inclusion nearly 20 years ago. While this is not an all encompassing “Follow Command” as we wanted (sorry, we tried… it proved unwieldy) it does allow vehicles to follow each other in a column with appropriate “traffic control” behavior. The UI is very simple. You select Vehicle 1, plot a path, select Vehicle 2, hover the mouse over Vehicle 1 (similar to embarking infantry) then click to associate Vehicle 2 to Vehicle 1's movement. Vehicle 2 will now follow Vehicle 1 as best it can.

* Consolidate (Squad) Command. This allows a Squad to internally reorganize from two or three Teams into one or two Teams, depending on conditions. No more will Squads be forced to live with depleted Teams which could better function if consolidated. Personnel is reassigned by the game (not player controlled), however it is voluntary and therefore Squads don't spontaneously Consolidate all on their own.

* New tracer and muzzle special effects. The old system was designed in a different era of graphics card capabilities. We’ve long been requested to bring things up to more current standards.

* Ability to place Flavor Objects in the 3D environment more directly. The clunky UI that exists currently made many map makers opt out of using many, if any, Flavor Objects. The new feature works by letting the map maker "clone" a placed Flavor Object while in 3D mode, then place that cloned object anywhere. This is especially helpful when placing lots of the same things, like telephone poles, gravestones, etc. That in turn means more atmospheric environments for people to play in with a lot less time and energy.

* AI Orders now includes an option to “Withdraw”, which means it moves backwards and ends its move by facing the direction it came instead of the direction it traveled. This might not seem like a big deal, but it is


* AI Facing can now be specified. Similar to “Withdraw”, this allows the scenario designer to be sure what direction AI Groups pay attention to instead of leaving it up to the TacAI to decide on a case by case basis. This improves awareness, responsiveness, and defensive capabilities.

* AI can now be ordered to perform Area Fire in its AI Plan. This allows the AI to place fire on particular spots on the assumption that the enemy might be there. Woodlines, reverse ridges, buildings, etc. This is a compromise between the current system (absolutely no AI area fire) and everybody's fantasy system (the AI is smart enough to know when and where to apply Area Fire all on its own). Preliminary results indicate that this will be a rather nasty surprise for single player types


Steve
 

NUTTERNAME

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I suppose it would be best if we get the full details before making decisions. As a customer, I have to look at this approach along the following 'needs based' sales logic.

Will '4.0' have a 'demo'? Will customers have to watch a video to see if its worth the money?

Will '4.0' include some means to actually use it once purchased? By this I mean something like a representative scenario in each of the 'Families'. It is sort of like what happened with the 'Vehicle Pack', you bought it and then what? Play a MD concocted scenario? So, maybe they should post a 'redux' on the suppository of one well known scenario from each family so people can quickly get up and using the 4.0 product and draw their own conclusions and feedback at BF's forum.

Price. Obviously, for those that bought into more families, the better its value, IF it is a one-price item. That is, some sort of super-installer that can Upgrade ALL your CMx2 products.

Clearly, BF has finalized its deconstruction of its own CM 'Family' concept by offsetting 'features' from Family starters to some stand alone 'product'. 'Upgrade' has now gone from a well received extension of design effort to retroactively improve previous product, to some sort of 'passport' to new design levels. Will they still sell the existing Families at 3.0 level or insist all future buyers buy a 4.0 built-in Family starter?

 

mooreshawnm

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If they would sell a bases game on steam w scenarios/nations being DLCs I imagine sales would be an order of magnitude higher...
 

NUTTERNAME

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I highly doubt that ever happening at this point. If BF is sold to another concern, one with a larger talent pool and budget, perhaps that might be a possibility. But, they have reached an asymptote IMO, and they are now finagling on how best to squeeze the faithful out of their 'wargamebucks'.

It does seem that 4.0 is needed for the up and coming CMFI module. Will it be a bundler, that is, Module+4.0=39.99? I doubt it again, since it is an across the board Upgrade, it is then not only for CMFI, That is, its value and cost is seen as 'multi-family', and not just an intra-family product. I am inclined to think of CMFI as sort of the 'low-seller' in the whole fleet of CMX2 product, so I would think that the module would be a good marketing move IF bundled with a discount for 4.0, that is, having 4.0 out there is best for both parties. And it might even be a driver for CMFI sales.

If they would go 'Big Bundle'... CMFI+GL+?Module+4.0 for $99.00, I think they might get a 'Family' player increase for CMFI. The 'added-value' of 4.0 might seal the deal. I have a couple hundred in Paypal burning a hole in my virtual pocket, I could pull the trigger on that.

As far as buying the 4.0 Upgrade as a stand alone purchase, I can't see the motivation till there is a good need to. By that I mean there must be some 'Insta-Use' for the monetary layout. It is like they put the chariot in front of the horse.

And, I doubt the stand-alone price will be $10.00 either. The 'rational' is that it is, again, multifamily, therefore they will try and charge more. A real deal killer IMO.
 
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