Fire Lane Residual Fire power and concealed units

General Mayhem

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
1,646
Reaction score
246
Location
Taunton
Country
llUnited States
Two questions:

1. Is the amount of residual firepower left by a Fire lane halved if the attack that initiates it is vs a concealed unit? I think maybe No.

2. If a concealed unit enters fire lane residual is the attack halved? I think maybe Yes.

Confirmation or otherwise would be appreciated.
 

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,048
Reaction score
1,613
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
1. I think no as well...A9.22 para 2 lines 7-9. It is a categorical statement on its value [EXC when PBF].
2. I think no, the FP value of the lane is already in place. If a concealed unit entered say a 4 FP regular reside. it is not lower to 2. FL FP is just a special form of residual FP that happens to exists in a variety of hexes, but is otherwise treated the same [EXC: cancellation].
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,106
Reaction score
5,238
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
Two questions:

1. Is the amount of residual firepower left by a Fire lane halved if the attack that initiates it is vs a concealed unit? I think maybe No.

2. If a concealed unit enters fire lane residual is the attack halved? I think maybe Yes.

Confirmation or otherwise would be appreciated.
No and no. Firelane FP is always based on the FP of the MG (and PBR) [A9.22]. Once placed residual FP, including a firelane, is never reduced for any reason, including concealment [A8.224]

JR
 

General Mayhem

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
1,646
Reaction score
246
Location
Taunton
Country
llUnited States
Thanks to both for quick replies - A8.224 is pretty definitive on the matter.
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,106
Reaction score
5,238
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
Because of this, if you have a concealed unit and a non-concealed unit to move where you expect to have residual placed, it's better (often) to move the concealed unit first. If the attack places regular residual, the residual placed for the unconcealed unit is reduced by half and the attack vs the concealed unit is no worse than the residual would have been. If the attack places a firelane, the attack by the halved FP is no worse than the firelane, and the firelane is less of an attack against the unconcealed unit than the original MG FP.

JR
 

General Mayhem

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
1,646
Reaction score
246
Location
Taunton
Country
llUnited States
In the scenario I am playing it is Extreme winter with deep snow and falling snow and I have several concealed Russian squads winter camo and a road to cross which is covered by a German HMG. I was hoping the camo would help with assault moves onto the road, but seems no such luck, I will have to think again.
 

jrv

Forum Guru
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
21,106
Reaction score
5,238
Location
Teutoburger Wald
Country
llIceland
In the scenario I am playing it is Extreme winter with deep snow and falling snow and I have several concealed Russian squads winter camo and a road to cross which is covered by a German HMG. I was hoping the camo would help with assault moves onto the road, but seems no such luck, I will have to think again.
Extreme winter? Assault move the first unit, let him place the firelane. Move the second unit normally into the firelane and if both the MG and the unit fail to break move up the firelane until one or the other does. B# is reduced by two. Then move everyone else normally. If you have an AFV drive that up the firelane CE instead.

JR
 

General Mayhem

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
1,646
Reaction score
246
Location
Taunton
Country
llUnited States
If they're Axis Minor MGs in most cases, it's almost a no brainer.
Unfortunately they are not. I am inclined to think assault moves one at a time into the firelane is my best option. I only have 5 units to cross the road and its going to be 4-1 for an assault move into open ground and 4-2 for non assault move. If I survive I keep concealment and can advance to the other side of the road. I still have the chance with each unit of malfing the MG.
 
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Messages
545
Reaction score
19
Location
Oz
Country
llAustralia
Not sure of the exact situation but :

Move 1 hex form the potential FL then advance in APh. Bravo, no FL problems from that anymore.
 

Justiciar

Elder Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
5,048
Reaction score
1,613
Location
Within Range
Country
llUnited States
Not sure of the exact situation but :

Move 1 hex form the potential FL then advance in APh. Bravo, no FL problems from that anymore.
The FL still did its job. Its job was not solely to break any unit that went in it (though that is a fine bonus and best possible result), but it was most likely there to 'clock' a turn on units wishing to get 2-3-4-5 hexes past it. The approach you noted is a "clock" of a turn, it is as if the enemy Pinned you in the FL (another acceptable out come). The FL will displace and reset to another line...looking to clock you like this again. The best way to defeat a FL besides Prepping and break/pinning the operator...is to get smoke down to that the FL cannot be placed as all b/c the smoke hindrance is +6...usually this is a +3 shot on the operator (for effective smoke of 4) and then another shot elsewhere or even an infantry smoke grenade or sD/sM pop.
 

Tuomo

Keeper of the Funk
Joined
Feb 10, 2003
Messages
2,964
Reaction score
1,554
Location
Rock Bottom
Country
llUnited States
The FL still did its job.
Yep. And sometimes the greater wisdom is to accept the small inconvenience posed by enemy units doing their job rather than morph your attack plan to avoid it.

In this case, you might actually be hurting your chances more by going to great lengths to avoid being slowed down by the MG than if you'd just let the MG have its moment and slow you down. I rarely have the units to burn trying to run up and down a FL trying to malf it. If you wind up diverting a tank and an Assault Engineer (smoke) squad to the area to help you deal with the MG, ok, that may just be good combined arms tactics, but at some point you can be spending more effort than it's worth. You've got concealment and winter camo, and a German HMG is staring you down. It may be better wisdom to lower your expectations to "let's just get most of our guys across the street unbroken" rather than "let's not let this HMG slow down the attack".

From the defender's perspective, he'd probably like nothing better than to get a bunch of 4-1 shots against assault moving troops, and it does indeed sound like a good deal for him. Your best bet may be to settle for denying him that good opportunity, trading units for time (your slowed attack). Hopefully the the HMG firelane keeps it from being used against you elsewhere - can you push on other fronts?

Still, I get it, you don't want to just concede the advance. Some probing is almost always worth it, because hey, maybe the MG does malf or maybe the FL shot misses entirely or maybe your guys do roll well on their MCs. You don't know until you try. Just keep an eye on the overall cost-benefit ratio here, and be willing to step away from the table should things start to get pear-shaped.

Is Dash available, given the terrain?
 
Top