Finn Project

VonHutier

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I would say one should own HP.
If for nothing else to support the hobby and support MMP.
Agreed, but it's not available...( for less than £400 )...sorry, I'm not super rich.
 

Chas

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T-100 will likely be used in 3 scenarios, SMK likely 2 scenarios.
 

TopT

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Man, you guys are making it difficult to slow down on my purchases!

I agree with what was said upthread. You get a lot of production value from BFP for each of their releases and you run neck and neck with the 'official' producers of ASL as the best of the best.

Thank you.
 

brunger

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While I canna get everything. Bounding fire is the exception. Somehow I just find the resources. I never got MMP’s HP. Regrettably. And couldn’t afford it now??
So many nice games so little time????
 

footsteps

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Agreed, but it's not available...( for less than £400 )...sorry, I'm not super rich.
While I canna get everything. Bounding fire is the exception. Somehow I just find the resources. I never got MMP’s HP. Regrettably. And couldn’t afford it now??
So many nice games so little time????
Not quite HP, but it could do in a pinch...

Finnish
 

asloser

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Hi Chas,

20253

Noticed your Finnish Bf109G AC counter as an avatar. To include this kind of cointer in ASL is not historical.

While the Bf 109G the best fighter in Finnish airforce inventory in 1943-44 and by summer of 1944 was also numerously most important, they were however never ever used for close support missions. Also no Finnish Bf 109s used bombs. Later G6 models had a centerline rack for drop tank but even that was only used to increase ferry range, not for operational missions.

Finnish air force did not fly ground support missions systematically and I've found only couple of occasions that there might be a possibility to use Finnish air support in ASL scale. Those planes would have been older fighter types like Morane M.S.406 or Fokker D.XXI and even then it was more of an emergency last ditch effort.

German unit called Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey operated in June / July 1944 in support of Finnish army using Ju87s and Fw190 fighter bombers. This unit is the only true close support unit operating on the FInnish front. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detachment_Kuhlmey for an overview.

Of course you as a publisher are entitled to do whatever you wish, and I hope you are successful. Just pointing out a blatant historical mistake on the counter you posted.
 

Eagle4ty

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Hi Chas,

View attachment 20253

Noticed your Finnish Bf109G AC counter as an avatar. To include this kind of cointer in ASL is not historical.

While the Bf 109G the best fighter in Finnish airforce inventory in 1943-44 and by summer of 1944 was also numerously most important, they were however never ever used for close support missions. Also no Finnish Bf 109s used bombs. Later G6 models had a centerline rack for drop tank but even that was only used to increase ferry range, not for operational missions.

Finnish air force did not fly ground support missions systematically and I've found only couple of occasions that there might be a possibility to use Finnish air support in ASL scale. Those planes would have been older fighter types like Morane M.S.406 or Fokker D.XXI and even then it was more of an emergency last ditch effort.

German unit called Gefechtsverband Kuhlmey operated in June / July 1944 in support of Finnish army using Ju87s and Fw190 fighter bombers. This unit is the only true close support unit operating on the FInnish front. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detachment_Kuhlmey for an overview.

Of course you as a publisher are entitled to do whatever you wish, and I hope you are successful. Just pointing out a blatant historical mistake on the counter you posted.
NOW you tell him! :giggle::rolleyes:

Great info nonetheless.
 

Chas

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I was not going to but probably necessary at this point to respond to asloser. After I post this I will no longer respond to this matter on this thread. I will point out below where asloser is correct, partially(mostly) correct, and incorrect:

1) He should have contacted me privately to discuss this. I would have been very open to a discussion.

2) I agree in that very likely the Bf109 did not have bombs. The Finns received the G2 an then later the G6 versions. The G2 version could not fit bombs and was modified with a kit (R1) to carry bombs. I had not gone back to verify what was shipped and such, but was leaning toward 90% no bombs. A designer wanted to use it with bombs. I ended up saying OK, and we will go back and readjust as necessary when we complete all of the aircraft. The counter was already designed for the Germans, and Rick did in Finn scheme. I change my avatar like once a month or so with current stuff as a way of showcasing the main upcoming project. Those counters sometimes change even after I use them as an avatar, but I am just showing off Rick’s excellent work. So just flip the counter over and it is 100% accurate within our design concepts. Regardless, this counter looks incredible! Note that there are a number of other FBs that we have determined for sure did not carry bombs for the Finns, and one or two that did. I am in the process of working on all of this stuff. Sadly, Paul Weir worked on all of new counter stuff with me as a advisor/sounding board. Under different circumstances he and I are probably discussing this three months ago.

3) Yes, all (or nearly all) Finnish aircraft had a primary mission of air intercept with a secondary mission of ground attack. This included aircraft that other countries used as ground attack/light bombers.

4) asloser's comment of never ever used in ground attack role is simply completely contradictory to the data I have found. One comment from the Finnish Air Force about the Bf109 was that it was excellent in strafing ground targets. I will just leave it at that as there is no point in getting into a public pissing contest. It doesn’t do anyone any good.

I respectfully request that if you feel the need to continue on, please do so in the Designers Forum section, or contact me privately. This thread is where I am communicating with the ASL community about the progress of our future product.
 

asloser

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I was not going to but probably necessary at this point to respond to asloser. After I post this I will no longer respond to this matter on this thread. I will point out below where asloser is correct, partially(mostly) correct, and incorrect:

1) He should have contacted me privately to discuss this. I would have been very open to a discussion.

2) I agree in that very likely the Bf109 did not have bombs. The Finns received the G2 an then later the G6 versions. The G2 version could not fit bombs and was modified with a kit (R1) to carry bombs. I had not gone back to verify what was shipped and such, but was leaning toward 90% no bombs. A designer wanted to use it with bombs. I ended up saying OK, and we will go back and readjust as necessary when we complete all of the aircraft. The counter was already designed for the Germans, and Rick did in Finn scheme. I change my avatar like once a month or so with current stuff as a way of showcasing the main upcoming project. Those counters sometimes change even after I use them as an avatar, but I am just showing off Rick’s excellent work. So just flip the counter over and it is 100% accurate within our design concepts. Regardless, this counter looks incredible! Note that there are a number of other FBs that we have determined for sure did not carry bombs for the Finns, and one or two that did. I am in the process of working on all of this stuff. Sadly, Paul Weir worked on all of new counter stuff with me as a advisor/sounding board. Under different circumstances he and I are probably discussing this three months ago.

3) Yes, all (or nearly all) Finnish aircraft had a primary mission of air intercept with a secondary mission of ground attack. This included aircraft that other countries used as ground attack/light bombers.

4) asloser's comment of never ever used in ground attack role is simply completely contradictory to the data I have found. One comment from the Finnish Air Force about the Bf109 was that it was excellent in strafing ground targets. I will just leave it at that as there is no point in getting into a public pissing contest. It doesn’t do anyone any good.

I respectfully request that if you feel the need to continue on, please do so in the Designers Forum section, or contact me privately. This thread is where I am communicating with the ASL community about the progress of our future product.

Dear Chas,

Thanks for the reply. I will get in touch with the details of this privately, no problems. There are a few points I will address here so there will be no misunderstanding for general public where I am coming from to this.

Firstly as an avid ASLer I am very fond of the Bounding Fire products and I have posted numerous AARs on this site and elsewhere on saying positive things about the actual gameplay of the products. I do not have it all, as I just try to limit my hobby to things I am actually able to play - but I have it about 60-70% of it. As a Finnish ASLer I am very happy and excited to see a product that builds on the official Finnish module and hopefully addresses mistakes and omissions done in that product. I will be buying a copy and I have high expectations on the quality. I greatly appreciate your company and the products. Also the Graphical side of you product (scenario cards, maps, counters) is outstanding.

Secondly, I am picking a tone of replying to a loser internet troll who hides behind a nickname in your message- it might be that I am wrong here as English is not my native language in which case I'll apologize.

But, I have the balls to be completely open on who I am: My real name is Tuomo Lukkari. I am one of the principal people behind the official Hakkaa Päälle module about Finns and ASL. Apart from being avid ASL player my other main hobby is Finnish Aviation history and during the last 40+ years I have collected AND studied almost everything published about the subject. I have visited numerous archives and museum backrooms to look at photographs and principal documents. I have had chance to discuss with several Finnish Aviation historians some who have done 50+ years of primary research on the subject in Finnish, German and Russian archives.

So I can back what I wrote if need to be. But I'll respect your wish and send an PM on the details of this your way.

Respectfully yours,

Tuomo Lukkari
 
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76mm

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I would say one should own HP.
If for nothing else to support the hobby and support MMP.
I’ll definitely pick up this module UNLESS HP is required. I dont have HP, it is OOP, hard to find, and expensive. Under these circumstances, i dont see how requiring HP supports MMP or the hobby?

If you need HP for a couple of scenarios that’s fine, but if you cant really enjoy the module unless you own HP, then I’m out.
 

Chas

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Not that this is a really big change from the previous mentioned 19 scenarios, but we are now at 14 Final and 5 near Final. Quite a few ongoing games at the moment as well.
Lots of progress on Player Aids, ect.
 

Gunner Scott

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Both critical hit and Battle Ground sell sets of Finn OB's.

I’ll definitely pick up this module UNLESS HP is required. I dont have HP, it is OOP, hard to find, and expensive. Under these circumstances, i dont see how requiring HP supports MMP or the hobby?

If you need HP for a couple of scenarios that’s fine, but if you cant really enjoy the module unless you own HP, then I’m out.
 

Chas

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We are too far away from production to be putting out too much detailed information that we cannot confirm this early:)
 

76mm

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Both critical hit and Battle Ground sell sets of Finn OB's.
Thanks. I dont know Battle Groken, could you mean Broken Ground? If so, it looks like they have Finns—for now—but AFAIK their stuff also tends to go OOP, so not sure i’d want to rely on them as a source (especially if sales of my module depended on it).

i’ve never bought anything from CH; not so much because of their terrible reputation or exhorbinant prices, but because it is generally impossible to tell what you’re getting when you buy stuff from them. Basically no pictures or details, just a very rah rah marketing blurb. So far i’ve been able to resist. But AFAIK they at least print on demand, so should remain available.

i’ll buy HP when/if it is reprinted.
 
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