Final Fire Questions

jfardette

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I’m sure this has come up before, and I’m in two games now where my opponents are on opposite sides of the argument and I’m looking for consistency. I cant find a clear answer in the rule book, although I’m sure it is there.

1. If a crew first fires a gun and breaks it, can they subsequent fire with inherent firepower vs an adjacent enemy? I think they are required to FPF if in the same hex, not so sure if they can fire otherwise.

1a. What if they didn’t break the gun and just would prefer not to intensive fire it? Does that change anything?

1b. What if it’s a half squad who fired a support weapon? Is the answer still the same?

2. Is first fire in the movement phase still considered defensive fire for the purposes of the above question? Can a crew first fire a gun during the movement phase, then use inherent firepower in final fire vs an adjacent unit during the defensive fire phase? My opponent feels that since the first fire takes place in the movement phase, the restrictions about weapon use don’t apply during the defensive fire phase. I always thought first fire was still considered defensive fire. And I could be wrong.

2a. This could affect things like mandatory fire group too?

Thanks,

Jim
 

Binchois

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1. A crew or any Infantry unit may SFF its IFP after firing a Gun/SW as First Fire. Whether the weapon malfunctioned has no bearing on this. However, the possibility that the unit cowered while malfing a SW (i.e. double 6s) might prevent SFF.

2. First Fire, SFF, FPF, and Final Fire are all forms of Defensive Fire. If a crew fires a Gun once during the MPh, it would be marked with a First Fire counter. This allows the options to Intensive Fire or to SFF its IFP. It also allows the unit to Final Fire during the DFPh, as per A 8.4, at an adjacent (or same) hex target only.

2a. I don't see any specific effect on the mandatory FG rule which continues to apply unchanged. Units may FG - and are sometimes obliged to FG - even when using different forms of Defensive Fire.
 

semenza

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I’m sure this has come up before, and I’m in two games now where my opponents are on opposite sides of the argument and I’m looking for consistency. I cant find a clear answer in the rule book, although I’m sure it is there.

1. If a crew first fires a gun and breaks it, can they subsequent fire with inherent firepower vs an adjacent enemy? I think they are required to FPF if in the same hex, not so sure if they can fire otherwise.

1a. What if they didn’t break the gun and just would prefer not to intensive fire it? Does that change anything?

1b. What if it’s a half squad who fired a support weapon? Is the answer still the same?

2. Is first fire in the movement phase still considered defensive fire for the purposes of the above question? Can a crew first fire a gun during the movement phase, then use inherent firepower in final fire vs an adjacent unit during the defensive fire phase? My opponent feels that since the first fire takes place in the movement phase, the restrictions about weapon use don’t apply during the defensive fire phase. I always thought first fire was still considered defensive fire. And I could be wrong.

2a. This could affect things like mandatory fire group too?

Thanks,

Jim

The crew or half squad (assuming they did not cower, which can't happen on a TH) would be first fired. They can use subsequent first fire / final fire in the normal manner with there inherent FP. Doesn't matter if the gun or SW is malfunctioned or not.

Also see A .15

Seth
 

jfardette

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I guess my confusion comes from the rules that say a crew or half squad cannot use its inherent firepower if they use a SW. Do they just lose the ability to fire inherent on that shot?
 

Binchois

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I guess my confusion comes from the rules that say a crew or half squad cannot use its inherent firepower if they use a SW. Do they just lose the ability to fire inherent on that shot?
Exactly. They simply can't combine a SW with their IFP - it's either/or for Prep Fire, AFPh fire, D1F, SFF, FPF, or Final Fire. The important sections are A9.11 and - especially - the EXCeption (A7.353):

A9.11 MMC USAGE: A squad may fire any one SW MG at no cost to its own Inherent FP, or any two SW MG at their normal MG FP effect at the cost of forfeiting its own Inherent FP for the current and any remaining fire phases in that Player Turn [EXC: 7.353]. Any other MMC may fire only one SW MG (regardless of type) with full FP, but in so doing forfeits its Inherent FP for any remaining fire phases in that Player Turn [EXC: 7.353].​
A7.353 In both of the above cases, Subsequent First Fire (8.3), FPF (8.31), and Final Fire (8.4) vs adjacent units retain halved inherent FP for those attacks (regardless of how they were used during First Fire) — although use of full SW/Gun capability during such attacks can negate inherent FP in the normal manner.​
...I guess A9.11 restates what is also in A7.351 and A7.352.
 
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Binchois

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And assume the same for a gun crew instead of half squad with MG?
As I said in my original post above...yes. SFF and FPF are fire opportunities for Infantry which otherwise qualify (Final Fire options are not restricted to Infantry). Crews (even vehicular crews when on foot) are so classed. As per C2.241, a crew which fires a Gun as D1F is marked with a First Fire counter. It is thereby subject to the above discussed rules.

BTW, you could reverse the situation. If the crew decided to First Fire its IFP at a moving unit, it would then be marked with a first fire counter. This would mean that it could no longer first fire its Gun. However, it could still Intensive Fire its Gun (or SFF its IFP).
 
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Ric of The LBC

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Please confirm for me.

A squad that mans an AT gun retains its inherent firepower and fire the gun just like any other support weapon with non-qualified use restrictions.

Any difference in Starter Kit?
 

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