Festung Budapest Strategy

Fort

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Have you decided on the focal points of your pre-game rubbling attempts? Apologies in advance if kibitzing on the choices is unwelcome, but since you put this out here ... the Soviets can't purchase Reserves the first CG date.

Enjoy, Joshua
Yeah, I just noticed....boo.

So I don't save a point. :p

Still working on where best to do the rubbling...
 
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Gary Mei

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I'm going to be starting CG3 in a few weeks after Noreaster, but if I were to ever play this CG, I would come to a gentlemen's agreement with my opponent that the Axis can't buy OBA until the Russians have a big enough setup or entry area. I would probably also recommend that a German HMG gets replaced by a MMG and possibly remove a 81 Mtr from the initial Axis forces.
 

'Ol Fezziwig

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... I would come to a gentlemen's agreement with my opponent that the Axis can't buy OBA until the Russians have a big enough setup or entry area...
:crosseye::crosseye::crosseye:

...but, they're...Russians!...they'll only make more!...:crosseye::crosseye::crosseye:
 

DrDeath

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I'm going to be starting CG3 in a few weeks after Noreaster, but if I were to ever play this CG, I would come to a gentlemen's agreement with my opponent that the Axis can't buy OBA until the Russians have a big enough setup or entry area. I would probably also recommend that a German HMG gets replaced by a MMG and possibly remove a 81 Mtr from the initial Axis forces.
Hey Gary-

No offense but I'm a little surprised that you are looking to make agreements and modifications to the OB's to address a perceived "balance" issue based soley on your setup of the initial scenario of a 15 date CG without a single die being cast. Did you playtest it and have it go south in a hurry? :surprise:

Personally, I, like Mr. Steinbeck, have found that the best laid plans...


:skull:
 

Gary Mei

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Hey Gary-

No offense but I'm a little surprised that you are looking to make agreements and modifications to the OB's to address a perceived "balance" issue based soley on your setup of the initial scenario of a 15 date CG without a single die being cast. Did you playtest it and have it go south in a hurry? :surprise:

Personally, I, like Mr. Steinbeck, have found that the best laid plans...


:skull:
Fort reported 4 games between good players that ended in decisive Axis wins. Locally, Joe Markham and Ron Duenskie are playing and the Axis after 1 day has killed 15 squads and 3 tanks while losing 3.5 squads and 2 crews. It's not over, but the fat lady does appear to be at least clearing her throat. And I don't see a reasonable way to offset the Axis day 2 Night Assault option.
 

DrDeath

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Fort reported 4 games between good players that ended in decisive Axis wins. Locally, Joe Markham and Ron Duenskie are playing and the Axis after 1 day has killed 15 squads and 3 tanks while losing 3.5 squads and 2 crews. It's not over, but the fat lady does appear to be at least clearing her throat. And I don't see a reasonable way to offset the Axis day 2 Night Assault option.
Interesting. I did not see Fort's discussion of the other games I just hate to see a game declared "broken" when practically nobody has played it. I must suck at this game worse than I ever imagined as my kill ratio does not compare to that one. I think those Russian players should start lining up outside my door to get back in the game and save some face. I assume I will see you at the Nor'Easter in MA on Friday.

:skull:
 

Fort

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Interesting. I did not see Fort's discussion of the other games I just hate to see a game declared "broken" when practically nobody has played it. I must suck at this game worse than I ever imagined as my kill ratio does not compare to that one. I think those Russian players should start lining up outside my door to get back in the game and save some face. I assume I will see you at the Nor'Easter in MA on Friday.

:skull:
My knowledge is secondhand...from the games of Guy Chaney, Jeff Coyle, Neil Stanhagen and Matt Noah...perhaps one or more of those fellas would like to step in and elaborate on their findings.
 

jrv

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You don't need OBA the first 2 days. The idea is that you use the defense in the opening post or something similar to keep the Russians confined to the A-C rows north of the railroad on day 1 and hopefully cause heavy casualties. Then on day 2, you declare a Night Assault and keep the Russians confined in this narrow area. You don't actually need to attack as the Axis even if you declare an Assault. Your job is to keep the Russians bottled up and punish them if they have the audacity to attack with offboard troops against a numerically superior cloaked force with more firepower and fortifications. If day 3 arrives with the Russians still confined to the A-C rows north of the railroad, then 2 pre-reg'd OBA missions in that small area will ruin the Russian's day.

That's the theory at least.
The CGII initial scenario victory conditions are "if there are no Good Order non-Reserve Hungarian units on/adjacent to the EmRR portion of the Cogwheel Railway (6.12) and by Controlling building G31." In order to keep Russians confined to A-C, you are saying there is no hope of the Russians winning the first CG scenario. If the Russians win the first CG date, they will almost certainly have a fairly substantial beachhead, certainly enough to weather a few modules of OBA.

JR
 

Gary Mei

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The CGII initial scenario victory conditions are "if there are no Good Order non-Reserve Hungarian units on/adjacent to the EmRR portion of the Cogwheel Railway (6.12) and by Controlling building G31." In order to keep Russians confined to A-C, you are saying there is no hope of the Russians winning the first CG scenario. If the Russians win the first CG date, they will almost certainly have a fairly substantial beachhead, certainly enough to weather a few modules of OBA.

JR
JR, you live in PA right? How far away are you from Bridgewater, NJ? I would be willing to play out the first couple of days of this CG if you're close enough. I won't guarantee that I'll setup the same way as in the opening post, but I think I can setup something suitably nasty. :devious:
 

jrv

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It looks to me as though SMOKE OBA in B35 and G38 would also be a workable approach. The former would allow access to A34 concealed, because A35 is in the Russian entry area. The latter would allow the Russians to gain access to the G35-G37 buildings as well as threaten I39 on turn 2 concealed, since G39 is in the Russian entry area. A36, A37 (with Russians digging foxholes like mad) and similar become the rally points because SMOKE blocks the LOS. Now Stalin help you if you fail to get your SMOKE down, but it seems like the Russians can get on board if things don't go too badly.

JR
 

jrv

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JR, you live in PA right? How far away are you from Bridgewater, NJ? I would be willing to play out the first couple of days of this CG if you're close enough. I won't guarantee that I'll setup the same way as in the opening post, but I think I can setup something suitably nasty. :devious:
I used to live closer. Back before you schooled Joe Markham, Joe and I used to play. Now I live in Royersford, PA. It's about 2 hours each way.

JR
 

Gary Mei

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I used to live closer. Back before you schooled Joe Markham, Joe and I used to play. Now I live in Royersford, PA. It's about 2 hours each way.

JR
If you're willing to drive the distance, let me know. If it's a weekend where we both are free, you can sleep overnight in the guest bedroom and we can game 2 days. :)
 

jrv

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Am I correct that CG SSR CGII.1 means that the Axis will be averaging around 8 GCPP per CG Day on/prior to 27 January unless there is an idle day? To purchase one 150mm OBA and one 120mm OBA (both with pre-reg hex) will cost them 9 GCPP, so they will have to have save over the first two CG Days to attempt the OBA-smother defense, especially if they want to try it over more than one day and if they want to have a buffer for bad replenishment DRs.

JR
 

Fort

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Am I correct that CG SSR CGII.1 means that the Axis will be averaging around 8 GCPP per CG Day on/prior to 27 January unless there is an idle day? To purchase one 150mm OBA and one 120mm OBA (both with pre-reg hex) will cost them 9 GCPP, so they will have to have save over the first two CG Days to attempt the OBA-smother defense, especially if they want to try it over more than one day and if they want to have a buffer for bad replenishment DRs.

JR
The Axis have 6 Gcpp for the 1st day, will average 12.5 Gcpp, and 3 Scpp the second day, and back to 6Gcpp/3Scpp the third day.
Hungarian Rocket OBA costs 3 with Pre-reg, 2 modules of 120 costs 8 with Pre Reg, they should have no problem buying two modules of OBA on the third day. They really won't need any more infantry for the third day. I'd go with the two 120mmOBA as that can last for a while.
 
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jrv

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The Axis have 6 Gcpp for the 1st day, will average 12.5 Gcpp, and 3 Scpp the second day, and back to 6Gcpp/3Scpp the third day.
Hungarian Rocket OBA costs 3 with Pre-reg, 2 modules of 120 costs 6 with Pre Reg, they should have no problem buying two modules of OBA on the third day. They really won't need any more infantry for the third day. I'd go with the two 120mmOBA as that can last for a while.
My RG chart has a CPP cost of 3 per the OH2 Hungarian 120mm OBA, plus 1 point for the pre-reg, for a total of 8 GCPP for two Hungarian 120mm OBA modules. The Axis can buy only one rocket module. It would be destructive, but if the Russians set up some offboard they should be able to weather it fairly well. The two 120mm OBA modules would be more trouble because, as you say, they last more than one mission, but with proper SMOKE the Russians should be able to weather that potential storm as well and make some headway.

I'm not sure why you are saying 6 GCPP. Per 17.6161, assuming no mods, the average should be around a DR of 7, which is +15 GCPP, halved FRU = 8 GCPP. Clearly I did not account for the extra 6 GCPP bonus for Axis attack.

JR
 

Fort

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My RG chart has a CPP cost of 3 per the OH2 Hungarian 120mm OBA, plus 1 point for the pre-reg, for a total of 8 GCPP for two Hungarian 120mm OBA modules. The Axis can buy only one rocket module. It would be destructive, but if the Russians set up some offboard they should be able to weather it fairly well. The two 120mm OBA modules would be more trouble because, as you say, they last more than one mission, but with proper SMOKE the Russians should be able to weather that potential storm as well and make some headway.

I'm not sure why you are saying 6 GCPP. Per 17.6161, assuming no mods, the average should be around a DR of 7, which is +15 GCPP, halved FRU = 8 GCPP. Clearly I did not account for the extra 6 GCPP bonus for Axis attack.

JR
I'd buy one German, one Hungarian...but you're correct, the cost is 8...I just didn't add in the pre reg. Doesn't change the fact that they are affordable.
As far as the numbers I don't have the charts handy, I was just going from memory, wasn't sure if the rounding was up or down, so I erred on the side of caution.
 

jrv

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I'd buy one German, one Hungarian...but you're correct, the cost is 8...I just didn't add in the pre reg. Doesn't change the fact that they are affordable.
As far as the numbers I don't have the charts handy, I was just going from memory, wasn't sure if the rounding was up or down, so I erred on the side of caution.
It's affordable, but only just. And it's not the 150mm OBA. 120mm OBA with +4 TEM is (doing the shift math) 8 flat equivalent. Applied against 8 ML troops, that's going to cause some casualties, but as long as the Russians set up spread out, it's not going to knock them flat.

JR
 

Honza

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Well said! Keep going JR! You will be promoted to Commissar in no time for the benefit you are doing for the Russian cause. :laugh:
 

Fort

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It's affordable, but only just. And it's not the 150mm OBA. 120mm OBA with +4 TEM is (doing the shift math) 8 flat equivalent. Applied against 8 ML troops, that's going to cause some casualties, but as long as the Russians set up spread out, it's not going to knock them flat.

JR
They don't get to spread out...that's the problem. And just keeping the commies cowering with their heads down under cover is EXACTLY what the Axis wants.

Time is NOT on the Soviet's side here.
 
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