Festung Budapest Strategy

Gary Mei

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I'd like to start a discussion on FB CG2 and see if there is a viable Russian strategy.

Here is the skeleton of a sample Axis setup in CG2 for FB. The Axis purchased a Vannay coy in reserve and a Mk4 section. Assume full coys and 7s rolled for leadership (thus the Hungarians have a 9-1 and 8-1 as their best leaders)

I used German guns in the picture for the Hungarian 81 Mtrs and 40L AA guns since I was too lazy to dig out my Hungarian ordnance. :)

Assume the rest of the Axis forces setup accordingly to support the onboard forces. Q36L1 has a 9-1/2 247/2 HMG and is complete fortified. It is 13-16 hexes away from pretty much all Russian positions so the German HMGs will fire at full strength and the Russian ones at half strength. L29L2 has the 75L AT and is completely fortified. The Pak40 has a dominant position and is well placed to support the Mk4s. All Mk4s are in stone buildings. The Mk4s are going to be very tough to deal with. A26L2 has a 8-1/HMG and is ready to lay fire into A36 so the Russians don't have any viable rally points. A26L2 is level 3 compared to A36, so A34 will produce only 1 blind hex.

How would you attack this defense if you're the Russians,? Assume 1 infantry coy of some sort was purchased with the initial 10 pts and that you didn't know what the Axis has purchased.

It becomes harder if the Axis HIPs the Mk4s using some of their 50 FPP to start.

View attachment 35730View attachment 35731View attachment 35732View attachment 35733
 

Honza

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The Russian strategy is going to have to be MOVE MOVE MOVE directly into the German wall of fire - regardless of his casualties. His primary objective is to expand the bridghead in preparation for later CG dates. His situation is precarious, he has no territory to be able to set up on. Therefore he has got to trade units for land. If he suffers terrible casualties but gains several hexes in all directions he can congratulate himself.

The German will be spending CPP on EITHER infantry OR tanks. His FP is considerable, but its not enough to completely blow the Russian away.

I think the main Russian obstacle at this early stage of the CG is passing his PMC.

Obviously if the Russian has any sources of Smoke then he ought to use those.......
 

Jacometti

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Maybe the Russian can buy some cheap weak armor and place it where he likes some Smoke ?

Human Wave the AFV ?

Sleeze Freeze everyone ?
 

Honza

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Maybe the Russian can buy some cheap weak armor and place it where he likes some Smoke ?

Human Wave the AFV ?

Sleeze Freeze everyone ?
He has got SU-76's. Ideal for the job! :D
 

rdw5150

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He has got SU-76's. Ideal for the job! :D
OT AFV in an Urban environment against troops with PF..... This would be the Russian version of SMOKE:smoke:

Peace

Roger
 

ASRomafan

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OT AFV in an Urban environment against troops with PF..... This would be the Russian version of SMOKE:smoke:

Peace

Roger
:laugh: Indeed burning smoking wrecks as they should be if anyone thought to use them as MBT's. The Russians should have no lack of artillery or smoke missions, especially in such an siege enviroment and era (1945). It should be cheap and plentiful.
 

Honza

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The Russians should have no lack of artillery or smoke missions, especially in such an siege enviroment and era (1945). It should be cheap and plentiful.
One would have thought so. I'm keen to see these CG's and their RG for myself.
 

JOS

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How would you attack this defense if you're the Russians,? Assume 1 infantry coy of some sort was purchased with the initial 10 pts and that you didn't know what the Axis has purchased.
Hi,

Two 80 mm Smoke FFEs (PR on B35 and D35, if you want to use one for a Barrage, otherwise C38). This would be made much easier without the dreaded appearance of 'enter on Turn 1' vice 'enter on/after Turn 1' in the Soviet entry requirements. I so wish designers would relegate the former to the 'mythic rare' status it deserves.

Enjoy, Joshua
 

Sean Deller

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Joshua has the right idea....tons of SMOKE. I bought a PRH to enable a SMOKE barrage and a second Bn Mtr for more SMOKE and HE. I also bought an SMG Coy to close with and clean out the initial Axis buildings. I can't remember what I used the other GCPP for but it might have been a T-34/85 or SU-76 section.

Don't be in a rush on the opening day. Take a turn or two to get the SMOKE in the right place. Use your AFVs to gain acq on key Axis overwatch positions (SU-76 are particularly useful for this). When ready, surge forward with the infantry under cover of SMOKE and/or Armored Assault.

Don't take catastrophic losses on Turn 1. Establish a bridgehead and take whatever you can get for a reasonable price. If things don't work out, set the stage for a Day 2 breakout. Purchase the HW pltn to sweep rooftops and threaten overwatch positions, as well as more OBA for SMOKE.

Cheers,
Sean
 

Gary Mei

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Hi,

Two 80 mm Smoke FFEs (PR on B35 and D35, if you want to use one for a Barrage, otherwise C38). This would be made much easier without the dreaded appearance of 'enter on Turn 1' vice 'enter on/after Turn 1' in the Soviet entry requirements. I so wish designers would relegate the former to the 'mythic rare' status it deserves.

Enjoy, Joshua
2 prereged smoke FFEs are probably the best strategy to keep from being annihilated if you don't know what the opponent purchases. However, 80 OBA with PRH and OBO costs 4, and another one for the PRH for the free module. That leaves just enough points to buy a SMG coy so you have nothing else.

Now you get onboard relatively safely. What do you do when you finally pull a red chit or if you move outside the smoke FFEs? You've kicked the can down the road a couple of turns, but the many high ROF long range weapons are still going to take their pound of flesh eventually. You don't know where the Mk4s are except for the one in A34 and even that one isn't an automatic gimme kill depending on exactly where the smoke mission lands. You'll probably still be stuck in a relatively small setup area for day 2 although if you're very cautious the CVP ratio might not be crippling. And then the Axis declare a Night Assault and it's pretty much over.

I think your strategy is probably the best that the Russians can reasonably utilize, but I don't see it as making enough of a difference in this case.
 

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I think maybe the best strategy is to wait offboard until the entry area expands and then try the assault. You're probably gonna be out of time, but it's better than throwing bodies into the fire.
 

Gary Mei

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I think maybe the best strategy is to wait offboard until the entry area expands and then try the assault. You're probably gonna be out of time, but it's better than throwing bodies into the fire.
That's an interesting thought. If the Russians take 7 idle days from Jan 20-26, they'll have 31 GCPP and 3 SCPP to spend (10 GCPP from day 1 and 3 each idle day plus 3 SCPP from the T34-85 section). The Germans have 20 GCPP (6 from day 1 and 2 each idle day) up til that point. So the Russians can purchase 5-7 COY vs 4-6 Axis if both sides purchases everything in reserve. Any Axis day 1 forts can be made mostly useless and any day 1 Axis AFV have 8 chances to be withdrawn. Any Alarm coy MMC will probably have been replaced with inferior Hungarian troops at this point.

Now the Russians can attack all along the West edge and immediately take the high ground. The Axis will be spread fairly thin covering the entire edge and the Russians can make a push in any single area with great superiority in forces.

PS The Russians can have even more SCPP by purchasing T-34-85 sections and making a 1 pt profit each section. They're probably not going to be using up all 12 sections in the remaining 7 days, so they may have 6-8 SCPP available for the assault.
 

Honza

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They have to wait 7 days for the entry area to open up! That is a lot. However if they don't wait and go ahead with the assault and end up getting hammered - they will still be able to assault on the 27th along the whole west edge.....

Perhaps that is the gist of the issue? Perhaps the Russians are supposed to lose the first few scenarios until their attack gathers enough steam to get going? Is the CG automatically lost if they are pushed off the map? If not then they can certainly take their time like Fort said and only probe the Axis defenses until its time for the big push.

If everyone passed their PMC and and did not give up as the Russian I wonder if they really could win!
 

Honza

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On the first CG date the Russian could just purchase heavy OBA and pound the Axis positions without setting foot on map at all......
 

Matt Book

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I am copying Bill's post on the FB CG II in the AAR folder here, think it might interest you all in this thread.....


"I have found that there is an error in the German RG Chart for CG II. There should be a superscript "m" in the OG1 Btln. Med. Mortar RG for CG II.

Neither the Germans nor the Hungarians should be able to purchase any OBA for the first two CG Days. Effectively, the Russians should be able to spread out somewhat before the Axis can bring any concentrated OBA down on their bridgehead.

Bill"

This might impact you.....
 

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I am copying Bill's post on the FB CG II in the AAR folder here, think it might interest you all in this thread.....


"I have found that there is an error in the German RG Chart for CG II. There should be a superscript "m" in the OG1 Btln. Med. Mortar RG for CG II.

Neither the Germans nor the Hungarians should be able to purchase any OBA for the first two CG Days. Effectively, the Russians should be able to spread out somewhat before the Axis can bring any concentrated OBA down on their bridgehead.

Bill"

This might impact you.....
It doesn't. The proposed "breakage" is that the Russians attack on the first scenario as per normal, then the Germans select an attack chit on the second day. Per FB17.6232-.6233, this is an Axis assault, and the Axis can make this a Night scenario. If the Axis push the Russians off, or even if they keep them bottled up, the third day dawns with the Russians having a very limited setup area. OBA then crushes the Russians. [Note: I have no idea if this is what happens. I am just summarizing the discussion so far.]

JR
 

Matt Book

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It doesn't. The proposed "breakage" is that the Russians attack on the first scenario as per normal, then the Germans select an attack chit on the second day. Per FB17.6232-.6233, this is an Axis assault, and the Axis can make this a Night scenario. If the Axis push the Russians off, or even if they keep them bottled up, the third day dawns with the Russians having a very limited setup area. OBA then crushes the Russians. [Note: I have no idea if this is what happens. I am just summarizing the discussion so far.]

JR
Yeah, I was aware of the general idea of the Axis counterattack, but I was implying that the the lack of OBA on the Axis part on the first couple CG dates actually would help expand the Russian bridgehead since they won't be hemmed in by barrage/OBA making the Axis counterattack not as significant. Also, besides the Axis counterattck option this CG gives the Axis time to build a backfield fortress similiar to RB.
 

Gary Mei

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Yeah, I was aware of the general idea of the Axis counterattack, but I was implying that the the lack of OBA on the Axis part on the first couple CG dates actually would help expand the Russian bridgehead since they won't be hemmed in by barrage/OBA making the Axis counterattack not as significant. Also, besides the Axis counterattck option this CG gives the Axis time to build a backfield fortress similiar to RB.
You don't need OBA the first 2 days. The idea is that you use the defense in the opening post or something similar to keep the Russians confined to the A-C rows north of the railroad on day 1 and hopefully cause heavy casualties. Then on day 2, you declare a Night Assault and keep the Russians confined in this narrow area. You don't actually need to attack as the Axis even if you declare an Assault. Your job is to keep the Russians bottled up and punish them if they have the audacity to attack with offboard troops against a numerically superior cloaked force with more firepower and fortifications. If day 3 arrives with the Russians still confined to the A-C rows north of the railroad, then 2 pre-reg'd OBA missions in that small area will ruin the Russian's day.

That's the theory at least.
 

jrv

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You don't need OBA the first 2 days. The idea is that you use the defense in the opening post or something similar to keep the Russians confined to the A-C rows north of the railroad on day 1 and hopefully cause heavy casualties. Then on day 2, you declare a Night Assault and keep the Russians confined in this narrow area. You don't actually need to attack as the Axis even if you declare an Assault. Your job is to keep the Russians bottled up and punish them if they have the audacity to attack with offboard troops against a numerically superior cloaked force with more firepower and fortifications. If day 3 arrives with the Russians still confined to the A-C rows north of the railroad, then 2 pre-reg'd OBA missions in that small area will ruin the Russian's day.

That's the theory at least.
I don't know if this would work; I'm just throwing it out there. If the Russians see this tactic tried, they could put down some trenches/foxholes in the streets of their setup area. The entrenchments would join the buildings, especially the ones with upper levels and, if possible, extend the Russian setup area into the D hexrow. On the beginning of the third CG Date, leave a relatively small force on board set up mostly in buildings with upper levels and entrenchments (+4 TEM vs. OBA), and bring in the rest when/if OBA starts to dwindle and/or in areas which the OBA isn't affecting.. The Russians should also be able to seize control of the boardedge at least out to F39, which ought to give them a bit more space to operate in.

The Axis can put down one 150mm and one 120mm OBA mission for two days, Then they have one more German 120mm OBA, and two Hungarian 120mm OBA. If the Russians survive "hell week", I would hope they will outnumber the Axis mightily.

JR
 
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Fort

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I don't know if this would work; I'm just throwing it out there. If the Russians see this tactic tried, they could put down some trenches/foxholes in the streets of their setup area. The entrenchments would join the buildings, especially the ones with upper levels and, if possible, extend the Russian setup area into the D hexrow. On the beginning of the third CG Date, leave a relatively small force on board set up mostly in buildings with upper levels and entrenchments (+4 TEM vs. OBA), and bring in the rest when/if OBA starts to dwindle and/or in areas which the OBA isn't affecting.. The Russians should also be able to seize control of the boardedge at least out to F39, which ought to give them a bit more space to operate in.

JR
I like this.
 
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