Features Requests!

GJK

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
1,278
Reaction score
36
Location
ATX
Country
llUnited States
It's getting much too quiet around here all of a sudden, so let's go in a different direction....

If you could have one of the VASSAL Gods (i.e., Brent, RK, others?) add anything* to VASSAL, what new features would you like to see?

Personally, I'd like to see some features that add support for solitaire play (not that I play with myself that often - joke folks). IIUC, ADC2 has a feature where you can set a radius around specific units so that they will reveal themselves should you move within their area of influence. That would be a great enahancement for VASSAL I would think.

Would you like to see a map making utility added - much like what Cyberboard and ADC2 has? Frankly, I'm quite comfortable doing my graphics outside of VASSAL, but for some less inclined, perhaps you'd like the ability to create maps and counters from within the program?

For those interested, there's a list of RFC's HERE (which seems to be down at this very instant) where there are all kinds of requests for features - but we can openly discuss some ideas here if you all want. :)



* Within reason. Of course "AI" will be on top of everyone's list, but that would take VASSAL to a whole new genre.
 

travillaintim

Member
Joined
May 26, 2005
Messages
55
Reaction score
0
Location
Houston, Texas
Country
llUnited States
I for one cant wait for a lot of the new features coming along that Brent has been working on/completed so far :)

I've asked for loads of different things in the past as have others. Brent and RK must be constantly bombarded with ideas, not everything makes the RFE list or it would be a list that just grows and nothing ever got added to the engine itself I suspect.

As the engine keeps getting more advanced, the more convoluted routines I am able to perform. By linking counter GKC's, reports, markers, layers and global GKC's, access traits etc., these 'routines' are able to perform the basic housekeeping's in a game - simple rules that players will forget, but would break and mess up a game otherwise later on during play (oops - I forgot to reset this or that for example).

I've already seen this happen in play, and it's quite frustrating when it ruins a game that was running fine otherwise.

There are pros and cons to building in these automations. The pros being the speed up of play, letting the engine handle tedious tasks we will invariably forget/ fail to communicate but are nevertheless important and the cons being you have to provide manual overrides for those that still insist on doing everything exactly identical to the 'nth' degreee like the original game itself to the letter

Case in point, I have had some tell me how they hated that when a turn in a game would end it would adjust the turn counter automatically and reset game pieces for them and they would rather do this themselves.

Ultimately what I would like to see therefore is when the mod is being created a pop-up dialogue for any linked routines/traits that are defined/built in would appear that would ask if this is a routine that enforces a game rule condition/housekeeping that may be user disabled if they would prefer to have more control of the game when playing, perhaps through a user cp that would let them turn on/off the routines they wish to control or let the engine handle automatically at game start up.

I'm guessing though this is a longshot request as it would require some extensive code writing i'll bet :D
 

KLG

Recruit
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Location
Illinois
Country
llUnited States
I'd like some basic math/reporting ability, and if this is already available someone please clue me in. Here are two examples.

One

In my Wildermess War module each player has a hand of cards set up in a private window so the other player can not see their hand. I'd like some way of reporting how many cards are currently in each hand.

Two

In another module I'm working on there is a process of calculating supply points based on who controls the cities granting supply. It would be nice to be able to use a control marker with a property showing ownership and another set to the number of supply points it is worth, and then be able calculate the total of the supply points granted to each side using these properties. Such as:

if OWNER_PROPERTY = 1 then add SUPPLY_POINTS to SIDE_1_TOTAL
if OWNER_PROPERTY = 2 then add SUPPLY_POINTS to SIDE_2_TOTAL

I hope that made sense
 

travillaintim

Member
Joined
May 26, 2005
Messages
55
Reaction score
0
Location
Houston, Texas
Country
llUnited States
KLG said:
I'd like some basic math/reporting ability, and if this is already available someone please clue me in. Here are two examples.

if OWNER_PROPERTY = 1 then add SUPPLY_POINTS to SIDE_1_TOTAL
if OWNER_PROPERTY = 2 then add SUPPLY_POINTS to SIDE_2_TOTAL
This is possible. Use a GKC in conjunction with trigger and layer controlled counters.
Its difficult to explain how to setup though without knowing which mod it is and how its been put together, but based on what you've given , I'll give a brief try.

Each marker on the city gets a value 'x' which is stored as a placement layer.
For this example we will use a value of 2

Whenever the layer becomes active (CTRL A) a trigger will fire twice (CTRL 2, CTRL 2) by 'listening' for CTRL A
The trigger is the command for the GKC (defined as CTRL 2) which will look for properties 'SIDE_X_TOTAL" executing ALT 2 (it will do this twice because the trigger told it too). The piece 'SIDE_X_TOTAL' defines its own change of state using the same command (ALT 2), thus changing 2 times

This is the basic methedology and you can make it become more complex for addition and subtraction. The trick is to keep track of all your commands you are using and which does what to what property filter.

Im still experimenting but believe there is also the ability to 'skip' multiple GKC trigger firings using sub-menus and more command keys and property filters but is a little more elaborate and I'd have to tear my mod apart to figure out how it all works:)

Layout a matrix of all possible variations and then try to condense the similarities into prototypes so all Cities with a value of say 2 act the same and so on
 

dwardzala

Va Tech Hokie
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
598
Reaction score
70
Location
Detroit/Ann Arbor Ar
Country
llUnited States
How about VP tally counters or the like. Not aware of one in VASL. Would seem to be useful for other games. Could even make them configurable (i.e. several tally counters for Exit VP or Casualty VP, locations held, etc).
 

Swampwallaby

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
70
Reaction score
0
Location
Berry, NSW
Country
llAustralia
Some stuff I have been working on that will make this sort of thing easier:

Dynamic Properties
Should be going into 2.6. Dynamic Properties (DP) are Markers that can change value. The current value of the DP will be accessible using $name$ as usual. The DP has an optional number of Key Commands to do various operations:
  • Set DP to a value
  • Increment DP by a value
  • Decrement DP by a value
Value can be one of:
  • A fixed value defined in the DP
  • The value of any other marker, DP or System property
  • A value requested from the player when the Key Command is processed
To make life more interesting, DP's can be added to counters, maps or to the Game Module. The property value lookup procedure will be changed so that if a given property has no value after checking the counter, then any DP's attached to the current Map are checked. If still no value, then any DP's attached to the Game Module are checked. This will allow you to define Global Dynamic Properties at the Map level and the Module level. Values for Map and Module level DP's are set via a pop-up menu of commands on a toolbar button.

VP Tracker
I have already added an RFE for this one and sort of have the design sorted out.

I already use a custom build counter summarizer in some modules to count VP's based on the total of a given marker value in all counters that match a property filter. It works by printing a report in the Chat Window when the launch button is pressed. eg:

Victory Points:
USA 4 (Terrain: 3, Eliminated: 0, Step: 1)
CSA: 9 (Terrain: 5, Eliminated: 3, Step: 1)

I use special 'Control' markers that have a VP value and a 'Side'. Players change the control of a piece of terrain by flipping the control marker. The Eliminated count is the total of VP recorded on the opponents pieces in the Graveyard. Step points are the total of the number of the opponents units on the main map with the 'Step' layer active

What I have in mind is a popup window (like the turn tracker) that will show a 'table' of VP's. It will have button to update it.

In the configuration, you wil define what sides you want to report on, and for each side, the components to be included in Vp calculation. Components will be:

  • Sum given marker value for counters meeting a property filter
  • Manual counter modified by players using +/- buttons.
  • Anything else?
You could probably do the sae sort of thing with Dymanic Markers, but I think a specially designed component would be easier to use.

Cheers,
Brent.
 

KLG

Recruit
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Location
Illinois
Country
llUnited States
That's the sort of thing I was talking about Brent, only you explained it about 100 times better than I did. Can't wait for 2.6 :)

Travillaintim ...

Thanks for the info. I think I followed all of that, but I haven't worked much with the trigger command. Time to start experimenting again. It seems everytime I get into the engine I figure out something new.
 

Swampwallaby

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
70
Reaction score
0
Location
Berry, NSW
Country
llAustralia
KLG said:
Can't wait for 2.6 :)
The Dynamic Markers should be going into 2.6. The VP tracker won't, I haven't written it yet, but it shouldn't be too hard. Hopefully 2.7, or as an extension in the meantime.
 

Stan Hilinski

Recruit
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Location
Maryland
Country
llUnited States
The "hide all pieces on this map" button is a very handy way to see the terrain beneath the pieces and markers on the map. However, it is useless in games that have terrain pieces (tiles) such as Memoir '44, Battle Cry, Clash for a Continent because the button hides the terrain tiles too. In those games, the only other option is to create a global button that makes selected pieces invisible, but this is not entirely satisfactory because the pieces are not 100% invisible.

It would be nice if Vassal understood the difference between terrain pieces and all others so that "hide all pieces" would not hide the terrain tiles. If I were implementing it, I would attach a property check to the "hide all pieces" setup.

On a separate note, it is past time that the vassal home page be reorganized, particularly the organization of the module list.
 

Swampwallaby

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
70
Reaction score
0
Location
Berry, NSW
Country
llAustralia
Stan Hilinski said:
It would be nice if Vassal understood the difference between terrain pieces and all others so that "hide all pieces" would not hide the terrain tiles. If I were implementing it, I would attach a property check to the "hide all pieces" setup.
Have just finished coding this up in fact! It will be a sub-function of Game Piece Layers. Toolbar buttons will be available to:
  • Rotate All layers up
  • Rotate All layers Down
  • Make selected layers inactive (invisible and non-selectable)
  • Make selected layers active
The only way to do it cleanly was to build it into GamePiece layers, If your module does not use them, you will need to add layers and move the terrain pieces to a named Game Piece Layer.

Will possibly gointo 2.6, definitely into 2.7.

Cheers,
Brent.
 

Stan Hilinski

Recruit
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Location
Maryland
Country
llUnited States
The only way to do it cleanly was to build it into GamePiece layers, If your module does not use them, you will need to add layers and move the terrain pieces to a named Game Piece Layer.
After I wrote my note, it occurred to me that using a layer was the way to go, so your answer does not surprise me.

On another thought, I assume the primary toolbar is a JToolBar. If so, why did you guys decide not to make it detachable? I think a lot of players would find that useful.

Stan
 

Swampwallaby

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
70
Reaction score
0
Location
Berry, NSW
Country
llAustralia
Stan Hilinski said:
On another thought, I assume the primary toolbar is a JToolBar. If so, why did you guys decide not to make it detachable?/QUOTE]

Stan,

With many VASSAL 'features', It's not so much a matter of 'deciding' to implement the toolbar in such and such a way, as it oozing out of the mud and evolving into that form.

VASSAL evolved from VASL. Much of the code is new, some of other code is unchanged from the earliest revisions.

I just had a quick play with making the toolbars detachable and ran into some problems pretty quickly. The main toolbar actually consists of two toolbars, one for the module and one for the main map. Subsidiary maps have their own toolbars also. If you detatch a toolbar from a subsidiary map and then close the map, the toolbar dissappears, never to be seen again.

You mightwant to ask the same question of Rodney on the vassalengine list.

Regards,
Brent.
 

travillaintim

Member
Joined
May 26, 2005
Messages
55
Reaction score
0
Location
Houston, Texas
Country
llUnited States
on the subject of toolbars :) it would be nice if all of the buttons can be customized as opposed to just some of them.

Off the top of my head I can think of - the zoom in/out buttons cant be changed but the server play log buttons can be

I usually like to change all the buttons so I can define the icons at a uniform height throughout the entire toolbar and helps conserve wasting space for those oddball size icons :)
 

Swampwallaby

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
70
Reaction score
0
Location
Berry, NSW
Country
llAustralia
travillaintim said:
on the subject of toolbars :) it would be nice if all of the buttons can be customized as opposed to just some of them.
We have been working on this slowly. Rodney has now done the bit I can't do (the Step, server buttons etc.), so I should pull my finger out and update the rest.

This becomes even more important when Rodney brings Toolbar menus out... Toolbar menus will be like the property trait submenus - You specify the names of toolbar buttons and the buttons will be removed from the toolbar and added to a submenu with its own toolbar button. You will be able to cascade them for hierachical menus.

To be added to a Toolbar menu, a button has to have some text associated with it...

I'm also toying with the idea of making the Tooltiptext configurable for all existing toolbar buttons...

Cheers,
Brent.
 

Ogreking

Recruit
Joined
Feb 14, 2006
Messages
23
Reaction score
0
Location
US
Country
llUnited States
Enhanced e-mail capability for PBEM games.

Some ideas:

1. A button that says "PBEM Save" after a turn is done so you can push the button and save to a previously identified file location;
2. If we can't save an entire game. The ability to track where the game HAS gone for the last few turns would be nice.
3. I still would LOVE to see a "library" of entire games with commentary. I'd be very glad to do some entire games for those I know well enough. I've read the rules for over 20 games this year and sometimes its like they are written in Greek. Watching an actual session makes it so simple. (If anyone has ever played "San Juan" by reading the rules in comparison to watching someone play you will completely understand this one very quickly.)
 
Last edited:
Top