Errors and their metagame effects

Robin Reeve

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Hi all,
I presume that I am a strange person, but I would like to share about a psychological effect that I often experiment, just to see if other players have the same type of reactions.
It is not only about ASL, but as errors during play are nearly unavoidable (A.2 someone?), the phenomenon occurs about everytime I play my prefered wargame.

When I make an error and my opponent notices it, and that error was in my favour, I tend to feel guilty and I hope that my opponent is not suspecting that I was cheating.
That feeling gets more intense if I make further errors in my favour.

However, when I make an error and my opponent notices it, but that time it was in his favour, I feel some relief : at least I won't be suspected of cheating!
I could even hope that I make some errors in my opponent's favour, to remove any shade of suspicion about my integrity...

I cannot cheat and I would hate to be considered a cheater...

What is strange, is that I never have suspected any of my opponents of having been cheating.
When I point out their errors, I always consider that they are expected occurences, with no link to any intention from my opponents...

So, am I the only person to have that type of inner tensions, when one of my gaming errors has been spotted ?
 
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ecz

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I suggest to use my approach:
every time I have the suspect the rule could disallow what I'm doing or would do, I stop the game and ask: "do you agree? let's check?"
or, if it's an opponents action, I politely say " I believe you cannot do that because ... wait a moment and I'll quote you the rule" .

This cancel every emebarassment most of times even because is rare when I'm totally sure of a rule and my opponent totally disagrees. In these cases the safest thing is to stop the game and check the rules, and I check the manual even if he politely accepts my interpretation to continue the play because " I want to be sure ".

Of course can happen sometime I have no doubt about something but I play it wrongly, but is fairly rare. I do not care too much of what my opponent could think. And yes, of course I have the same feeling about my opponents errors: I think they are genuine at 100%. In any case since I know that ASL is a complex dice game, I do not fear to stop and ask for a verification of the rule when I have any doubt about his actions. In this case I say something like : "I'm still learning, sorry, be patient please".

About the different case of DRM badly counted or forgotten, or counted two times, well this happens so many times against or in favor that it should be clear that everyone can make mistakes, so both players must pay attention and double check when counting DRM because errors are always possible.

In my experience happened no more than once or twice that I had the impression my opponent deliberately tried something disallowed. No evidence in any case.

But the SAFEST and BETTER way to avoid useless discussions and waste of time is to play having Klas aside :D
 

bendizoid

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If you have a clean conscious, what the other person 'thinks' shouldn't matter. Is manipulating what they think important? You can't control it so why bother. Just be honest and fair, the other person will know your good qualities.
 

von Marwitz

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Probably you are not the only person with such inner tensions.

But I don't count myself among that number. If something that you describe happens to me or to my opponent, I consider it a mistake. That's it.

I might be mad at myself if I made a mistake that has had a significant effect on a game in my favor in a tournament where for some people the competitive factor is part of the fun. That is somewhat embarrassing. There is always the option to concede the game if it appears warranted and play on. On the receiving end I would not suspect my opponent to have made such a mistake with deliberation, i.e. won't think he has cheated. The same way I would not expect my opponent to think that I have cheated him.

On top of that, I would not have much understanding for people who would allege others having dishonest motives before assuming the most probable - that there has been a mistake. What kind of people have such an attidude?

Mistakes and errors happen. These are by far more likely than malign intent. And it is a friggin' game...

von Marwitz
 

Robin Reeve

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The errors I am writing of is not about very exotic aspects of the rules where I would have doubts: in such cases, I will discuss the topic with my opponent.
I am rather thinking of computing DRMs or MPs wrong, of forgetting this or that factor.

I certainly will agree that if I have a clear conscience, I shouldn't care about what my opponent thinks.
Except that, at the metagaming level, a game is about good relationships too.
And when I meet a new opponent, I am concerned about engaging the best relationship possible.

There also are those stories of rare players who have been banned because they were accused of cheating - or players who say, for some element of behaviour, that they would not play against a given player anymore.
I do think that, even though such extremes can be the result of justified misbehaviours, there is a radicality in the air which I don't appreciate the ring of.

But, psychologically speaking, I certainly am on the "adapted child" side of the spectrum (taking Transactional Analysis categories).
I do care to much about the relationship.
 

skarper

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I think most gamers have encountered players who make a lot of errors mostly in their favour. Are they cheating? Maybe but I think it's subconscious. They want to do XYZ and think they can. If you call them out on it they will be polite and not press their point of view, especially if you have the rules and can find the right passage.

In ASL you could cheat by constantly mining for rules areas your opponent is weak on and doing stuff that is actually disallowed. If you get away with it 1 in 3 times it will add up to a better chance of winning.

But you'd get found out sooner or later. Players usually go back of hazy areas of the rules in between games and they'll spot a pattern.

Players have to allow a margin for error [and those will often favour the player making the error] as part of learning the game. How competitively you play will vary under the circumstances.
 

DrDeath

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I made so many errors last week playing Steve Dennis that I should've been sent back to 3rd grade math class- By the time we were halfway through the scenario he would just smile state the correct DRM or MF count- Besides feeling like an idiot don't think it even crossed my mind that he thought I was actually trying to cheat. He must've wondered what kind of brain injury I've had in the last 15 years since we've played that left Sullivan such a retard though. I will will chalk it up to being the last evening of ASLOK and was just out of brain juice.

Skull.jpg
 

ActionBurk

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If you have a clean conscious, what the other person 'thinks' shouldn't matter. Is manipulating what they think important? You can't control it so why bother. Just be honest and fair, the other person will know your good qualities.
Totally agree. Besides the system is so complex that oversights are bound to happen, even while doing the simplest parts of the game.
 

Michael R

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If you are not trying to cheat, you should not feel guilty. DRMs are easy to miss or add incorrectly. When my opponent catches my error, I thank him and move on unless I think he is mistaken; then I often do the attack anyway and only look up the DRM in question if it makes a difference.
 

MatrimSaric

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I don't feel guilty about mental mistakes though I have often felt guilty and apologised profusely, for rolling well when it occurs. I remember one game where I was losing and had parked a tank with los down a road where my opponent had to cross a squad to win. He put smoke between the unit and tank and moved across. I snake eyed the first he shot then snake eyed the damage roll. my opponent had to leave the room, plus I was a tournament game. That made me feel guilty even though it was his dice in a dice tower..
 

Robin Reeve

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Thanks for the answers.
I must indeed be an abnormal person.
I am not absolutely surprised.
I know that I am too much concerned about having good and unambiguous relationships with people in general.
The problem is not my conscience, but about communication, honesty and mutual confidence.
 

sdennis

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I made so many errors last week playing Steve Dennis that I should've been sent back to 3rd grade math class- By the time we were halfway through the scenario he would just smile state the correct DRM or MF count- Besides feeling like an idiot don't think it even crossed my mind that he thought I was actually trying to cheat. He must've wondered what kind of brain injury I've had in the last 15 years since we've played that left Sullivan such a retard though. I will will chalk it up to being the last evening of ASLOK and was just out of brain juice.

View attachment 301
The way you were miscounting so bad I didn't think you were SMART enough to cheat! :)

Those kind of mistakes happen, get caught, don't get caught, etc. all the time. No worries from me either way whether I make them or discover them!
 
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