Errata'd Counters

[witchbottles]

So this also poses a question- if one accepts the proven theory of relative time dilation from the Hafele-Keating experiment - then if we load onto a plane traveling wuth in flight refueling and constant changing of aircrew to keep us airborne long enough - play a game of ASL during that flight, and travel only in a single direction around the Earth at a specified altitude, then land at the end of the game - did the snake-eyes I rolled for a Critical Hit ever occur or not? For that matter, does this make it the first ever UNgame of ASL recorded in history? (since long enough, and the entire game never occurred - we arrive on land long before the game ever began.)

gotta love einstein's twins paradox as applied to ASL

 

[Ric of The LBC]

So this also poses a question- if one accepts the proven theory of relative time dilation from the Hafele-Keating experiment - then if we load onto a plane traveling wuth in flight refueling and constant changing of aircrew to keep us airborne long enough - play a game of ASL during that flight, and travel only in a single direction around the Earth at a specified altitude, then land at the end of the game - did the snake-eyes I rolled for a Critical Hit ever occur or not? For that matter, does this make it the first ever UNgame of ASL recorded in history? (since long enough, and the entire game never occurred - we arrive on land long before the game ever began.)

gotta love einstein's twins paradox as applied to ASL

All I knows is dat Star Wars happened in the past.
or is it
Happened in the past Star Wars know I do

 

[nebel]

I know the correct designations on the most used vehicles, and don't need visually reminded that the T34-M41 with the thick, enclosing square is inaccurate, and the thinner, enclosing square is accurate. Sure, some of the lesser known vehicle errata might catch me in this way, but whoopty-do. I

Ummm... Are VASL and I playing this incorrectly?

 

[Paul M. Weir]

So this also poses a question- if one accepts the proven theory of relative time dilation from the Hafele-Keating experiment - then if we load onto a plane traveling wuth in flight refueling and constant changing of aircrew to keep us airborne long enough - play a game of ASL during that flight, and travel only in a single direction around the Earth at a specified altitude, then land at the end of the game - did the snake-eyes I rolled for a Critical Hit ever occur or not? For that matter, does this make it the first ever UNgame of ASL recorded in history? (since long enough, and the entire game never occurred - we arrive on land long before the game ever began.)

gotta love einstein's twins paradox as applied to ASL

The first thing is that time dilation does not break causality. Observers in different moving frames of reference may disagree on who's game started or finished first. However if a TK DR is always dependant on a successful TH DR, then a linked TH and TK will always occur in the same sequence to all observers, regardless of relative motion. The 'signal' from, say, the TH roll that triggers the TK roll is limited to light speed.

[Explanation]
Let A be the TH DR, B be the TK DR and C is the observer. A, B and C are not the exact same points in space-time, thus forming a triangle. For simplicity let us assume that A and B take up no time, IE DR are instant, only signal time matters.

The simplest case is when A-B-C is a straight line in space time. In this case the signal from A, which triggers B in passing, travels a distance A->B + B->C to get to C which is also the same as A->C, because they are in a straight line, a flattened triangle. The TH (A) and TK (B) will appear simultaneous, but only in this perfectly abstracted point like thought experiment.

If the space-time triangle is not flat, even by the most minute distance or time, then the distance A->B + B->C is greater than a straight A->C (the sum of the lengths of any two sides of a triangle are always greater than the length of the third). In effect the A->C is cutting the corner or using the diagonal. Because A->C is the shorter than A->B and then B->C the TH DR (A) signal will arrive at C before the TK DR (B). Thus causally linked events will always appear in the correct sequence to all observers.
[\Explanation]

Another way to think of time dilation is to ask "What speed is everything travelling at?" The answer is everything is traveling at the speed of light. Ridiculous, you say. I'm sitting here on my arse, you say. True, but you are not just in space, you are in time. So while being stationary in space, you are travelling in time, sort of like at right angles to space dimensions. So when you travel in space and you are at a fixed speed (speed of light) you are progressing less in the time dimension, hence what we call time dilation. Just another way of looking at it.

 

[ColinJ]

WRT to space-time. Brian Greene's has several books published on this topic. "The Elegant Universe" etc. All are great reads. NOVA also did a multipart program "The Elegant Universe", also good to watch.

Space and time are intertwined and the maximum speed limit is the speed of light, c. Your speed is measured through space-time. If you travel at c, maximum speed through space, time experienced is zero. A photon of light does not experience time, it arrives at your eye or detector, from its perspective, instantly, regardless of distance travelled. Since the photon is moving at the maximum allowable rate through space, the time part of the equation collapses to zero. Like a graph with x-axis representing space and the y-axis representing time. All space (x), means zero time .
If you are not moving, at rest in space, then time is moving at its maximum permissible rate, whatever that is. This would be hard to achieve, but even on earth, time is moving a touch slower, than on the moon, but the difference is tiny fractions of a second.
Someone who has spent months on the ISS only has a few milli-seconds of time dilation over someone who stayed on earth. If you were on the ISS since it was put in orbit, you would have almost a 0.1s time difference. The lower gravity, but higher speed cancel out somewhat. To achieve any time substantial time dilation, you need to be moving at 10,000's of km/s, not 10,000's of km/hr.

Wrong forum for this stuff but utterly fascinating. Thanks, Paul!

Colin

 

[Paul M. Weir]

Space and time are intertwined and the maximum speed limit is the speed of light, c.

I would make a tiny, tiny quibble, it's not that the maximum speed is the speed of light, it's the only 'speed' through space time. Now that may seem strange, how can you measure 'speed' through time, after all speed usualy means distance/time. The answer is that an outside observer measures both your normal 'space speed' and the rate your clock ticks and can combine the two. Space-time speed is only measurable by a separate observer.

Your comment about a photon never experiencing time poses interesting thoughts. A photon is emitted by a process, travels some distance while never experiencing time and is absorbed by another. It has exactly zero elapsed time during it's existence. Yet we also have Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle which states that certain combinations of properties can together never be measured more accurately than the reduced Planck constant divided by 2. Such combinations include position and momentum (Dp*Dm >= h/2, Dp = uncertainty of position, Dm = uncertainty of momentum and h =reduced Planck constant =1.05457×10−34 J*s) and time and energy (Dt*De >= h/2). So a photon experiencing exactly 0 time must experience an infinite uncertainty with regard to it's own energy. I suppose that's another one of the things where Relativity and Quantum Mechanics get into a bar fight. Still a long way to go to get a Grand Unified Theory (GUT).

 

[witchbottles]

I would make a tiny, tiny quibble, it's not that the maximum speed is the speed of light, it's the only 'speed' through space time. Now that may seem strange, how can you measure 'speed' through time, after all speed usualy means distance/time. The answer is that an outside observer measures both your normal 'space speed' and the rate your clock ticks and can combine the two. Space-time speed is only measurable by a separate observer.

Your comment about a photon never experiencing time poses interesting thoughts. A photon is emitted by a process, travels some distance while never experiencing time and is absorbed by another. It has exactly zero elapsed time during it's existence. Yet we also have Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle which states that certain combinations of properties can together never be measured more accurately than the reduced Planck constant divided by 2. Such combinations include position and momentum (Dp*Dm >= h/2, Dp = uncertainty of position, Dm = uncertainty of momentum and h =reduced Planck constant =1.05457×10−34 J*s) and time and energy (Dt*De >= h/2). So a photon experiencing exactly 0 time must experience an infinite uncertainty with regard to it's own energy. I suppose that's another one of the things where Relativity and Quantum Mechanics get into a bar fight. Still a long way to go to get a Grand Unified Theory (GUT).

no need fo a GUT, we already got a theory of everything (we think).

 

[volgaG68]

Ummm... Are VASL and I playing this incorrectly?

You correct are, dyslexia forgive my!

 

[djohannsen]

So while being stationary in space,

But, as you know, there are no absolute frames of reference.

 

[BigAl737]

There is no time...only being.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

But, as you know, there are no absolute frames of reference.

Absolutely true, no question about that, but I am using it in a colloquial sense. I suppose a better way of phrasing it would be "stationary with respect to the observer".

Someone has had their coffee this morning, well spotted.

 

[djohannsen]

Someone has had their POT OF coffee this morning

Fixed that for you.

 

[Paul M. Weir]

There is no time...only being.

While very Zen, it's wrong. Time as a dimension is as about a certain a thing that physics can demonstrate.

The big question is does time flow or is it an illusion resulting from the way our biochemical brain works and we are merely gathering memories in one direction of our fixed space-time world line.

We do know that time exists but do not really know what time is. Or space for that matter.

 

[Augie]

There are counters with errata !?!

 

[witchbottles]

While very Zen, it's wrong. Time as a dimension is as about a certain a thing that physics can demonstrate.

The big question is does time flow or is it an illusion resulting from the way our biochemical brain works and we are merely gathering memories in one direction of our fixed space-time world line.

We do know that time exists but do not really know what time is. Or space for that matter.

or matter,either, for that matter- hence the LHC in your neck of the woods being built.

 

[Eagle4ty]

There are counters with errata !?!

Now that's funny; I don't care who you are!

 

[von Marwitz]

There are counters with errata !?!

In the good ol' times there used to be 'chicks with errata'. But then the forum update took 'em all...

von Marwitz

 

[BigAl737]

While very Zen, it's wrong. Time as a dimension is as about a certain a thing that physics can demonstrate.

The big question is does time flow or is it an illusion resulting from the way our biochemical brain works and we are merely gathering memories in one direction of our fixed space-time world line.

We do know that time exists but do not really know what time is. Or space for that matter.

Ya but how can there be something that I'm always out of?

 

[Steven Pleva]

I throw out the old counters. I don't see a good reason to keep them around...
Steve

 

[witchbottles]

I throw out the old counters. I don't see a good reason to keep them around...
Steve

now we understand why satellite photos of the floating garbage island in the north pacific ocean now appears to be actually an assault by an ASL armored unit on defenses led by squads with unusual firepower numbers, attacking across multiple boards of dubious origin, with funny colored hills and open ground.