"Enemy at the Gates" - Russian look.....

[Cheetah772]

I've already stated I don't think they give US soldiers a fair shake. I never implied they give anyone else a fair shake either. Hollywood may even be guilty of portraying the Nazis in a bad light.

Man, I'll have to sit in a quite place and think about that one for a while! Maybe I need to open another bottle of Chianti...

Surprisingly, there are some war movies that actually get it right the first time.

For example, Gods And Generals is a brilliant war movie that moves your heart when you see how men on both sides did fight honorably and died for what they believed in. I had even tears coming down, I was surprised when that movie got the biblical quotes correct.

Andersonville is also another brilliant Civil War movie, though, it's about a Confederate POW camp for the Union troops trapped there.

If you want to watch campaigns or battles, then you'd best get a TV documentary on the wars covered in several volumes. Tora Tora Tora! is another good war movie about Pearl Harbor, it's way superior to the modern Pearl Harbor movie.

Dan

 

[ER_Chaser]

and loads of pics of n*** girls

 

[Wolfleader]

Cheetah772 wrote:

Tora Tora Tora! is another good war movie about Pearl Harbor, it's way superior to the modern Pearl Harbor movie.

Heh, even a home movie of a kid sitting in a home made mockup of an airplane going 'zoom zoom zoom' is a far superior movie than the new Pearl Harbour movie was.

That said, on the discussion of war movies I'm amazed no one has mentioned Midway yet. Now that was one movie I really enjoyed.

 

[ER_Chaser]

nah.. you just missed my acient posts... I nominated it a thousands time for best war movies

 

[Kraut]

nah.. you just missed my acient posts... I nominated it a thousands time for best war movies

After this hype I went to IMDB.com to see how others reviewed this movie and this was the first review I read

There's no need to go on about this prototypical piece of chauvinistic rubbish except to say that it's an insult to the brave people involved in the battle. Every subtlety is deleted. Every American error glossed over. Obtrusive subplots detract from the essential story. The editing is a mish mash of model work, actual overused combat footage, and excepts from a previous movie, and is confusing to the point of, well, confusion. The role of sheer luck is downplayed. The Japanese fully expected the American carriers to sally forth for a big Mahanian confrontation, which they did, and sent scouting submarines towards Pearl Harbor. But by the time the subs reached their assigned positions, it was too late. Our carriers had already passed to the west. The sole reason we were able to pull this off was our decryption of Japanese plans, which enabled our forces to move far more quickly than could reasonably be expected. At Coral Sea our forces were so little experienced that Douglas SBDs (with one foreward-firing fixed gun) were sent one on one against agile Japanese zeros. After the Battle of Midway the Japanese carriers, their airplanes, and most of their pilots were gone, of course, but there was still an enormous striking force afloat. This force slowly turned away after the battle, tempting the remaining American forces to follow and initiate another clash. Had we struck at the lure, the best guess is we would have been clobbered, if only because American forces were so outmatched. And there is an excellent likelihood we would have lost the island of Midway. Spruance wisely chose to withdraw his forces rather than leap aggressively at the bait. Had Halsey been in charge, had he not been hospitalized with a skin disorder, it is difficult to imagine his turning down such a tempting offer, but luck was with our side again, and Spruance, having achieved victory, departed the field, while Halsey itched. The movie is a piece of junk.

 

[Tim McBride]

For example, Gods And Generals is a brilliant war movie that moves your heart when you see how men on both sides did fight honorably and died for what they believed in. I had even tears coming down, I was surprised when that movie got the biblical quotes correct.

Yes that was an awesome movie. Thankfully they have someone good playing the part of Lee this time! (The actor who played Lee in Gettysburg was a horrible R.E.Lee)

 

[Cheetah772]

Yes that was an awesome movie. Thankfully they have someone good playing the part of Lee this time! (The actor who played Lee in Gettysburg was a horrible R.E.Lee)

Agreed. And I was surprised to see the man who was acting Ken Chamberlain, if I remember correctly, was the same actor who played in Dumb & Dumber. It was kind of weird to see that man acting...shame on me, I can't even remember that actor's name...

Dan

 

[JAMiAM]

Agreed. And I was surprised to see the man who was acting Ken Chamberlain, if I remember correctly, was the same actor who played in Dumb & Dumber. It was kind of weird to see that man acting...shame on me, I can't even remember that actor's name...

Dan

Was it Jeff Daniels?

 

[Tim McBride]

Was it Jeff Daniels?

Yep

 

[JAMiAM]

Damn, I'm so happy I could dance. I'm sure there's a joke lurking about here, but I was never much of a comedian. Must be that smidgeon of Danish sensibility that I still have...

 

[MonsterZero]

Since we're talking about Stalingrad you guys will probably find this interesting: an excerpt from the official diary of the Soviet 62 Army defending the city. Gives you some taste of what it was like. This is the entry for October 14, 1942:

8:00 hours. Enemy infantry and armor attack. Battle rages across the entire front.
9:30 hours. Enemy assault on the tractor works repulsed. 10 tanks burn on the factory's premises.
10:00 hours. 109th Regiment of the 37th Division (Gen. Zheludov) destroyed by tanks and infantry.
11:30 hours. Left flank of the 524th Regiment of the 95th Division overrun. About 50 tanks roll towards the main positions of the regiment.
11:50 hours. Enemy occupies the sports field by the tractor works. Our units from the field attempt to break out.
12:00 hours. The commander of the 117th Guards Regiment, Gen. Andreyev killed.
12:20 hours. Radio message from the 416 Regiment at the apartment complex: "Surrounded. Got water and ammo. We'll die but won't surrender."
12:30 hours. Stuka bombers attack the HQ of Gen. Zheludov. The general trapped in a collapsed bunker; without communication. We have managed to contact the units of the division.
13:10 hours. Two army HQ bunkers collapse. One of the officers is trapped with his legs crushed by the ruins. He cannot be freed.
15:25 hours. HQ security detachment committed to combat.
16:35 hours. Regimental commander Colonel Ustinov requests artillery fire on his HQ. He is surrounded by enemy infantry with submachine guns.

 

[amvas]

Re: to MonsterZero

Amvas, the author of the article points out some real problems in the visual appeal of the movie. Personally I think the real issue was a boring, bland script rather than unrealistic actor makeup or bad props.

The review was not written by somebody who looks at the movie with the objectivity and fairness of a real art critic. No, there are way too many immature personal shots taken there against the director and the producers who brought us Enemy at the Gates. There's too much fascination with bullshite and not enough reflection on the things that really matter.

I like more such type of critics than professional one!!! :devil:

Come on, if the presence of a "T-34-85 model 1944" (not historically accurate for the battle of Stalingrad) is the sticking point of a movie review then you should be writing reviews of plastic model tanks at Finescale Modeler. Movie critiques are not for you.

T-34-85 presence is not the main topic of the critics in this article. To be correct this mistake you can easily find in most Soviet/Rusiian movies

 

[amvas]

Re: Russian films

Heh, I didn't even notice the T-34 85 until it was pointed out in that review. I didn't mind watching Enemy at the Gates, I liked actually. Not least of which was the fact that it had Rachel Weisz in it.

That said I wouldn't mind seeing some Russian films on WW2 and I'll probably start hunting for them soon as my exams finish and I finally have some free time.

NOTE: Its obvious that not all Soviet films about WW2 are great. In some of them much propaganda could be seen :cheeky:

Listing of some good Soviet/Russian movies can be found in forum message
http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/read.php?f=9&i=6887&t=6626

 

[amvas]

...
12:00 hours. The commander of the 117th Guards Regiment, Gen. Andreyev killed.
...

Not sure that General may be the Regimental Commander :surprise:
May be Major? :cheeky:

 

[Priest]

Never fear, the days of American hereos in Hollywood are long gone.

True Don, the heros that were portrayed by men like John Wayne are as they say history. The morons in Hollyweed think that they are doing the country a favor by offering us heros with feet of clay.

 

[laszlo.nemedi]

...
How many non-Hollywood movies have you seen about the Eastern Front? Are Soviet soldiers depicted with more realism in those films? How are the Germans portrayed? The Brits? Americans?

A plenty of...
Of course the realism was the same than in American movies, the difference was always the communist was the good guys in the first place, Germans were evils, I could not see Brits and Americans in these films (the important was the patriotic war not the the other theatres).

I am really hungry (not Hungary ) for real war movie, however I know it would be for grognards not for the masses...

 

[Lt. Dan]

To put it bluntly I personally thought the movie sucked . I was disgusted yet amused at this childish attempt at a war movie. One thing that got to me was the romance between Zaitsev and the girl. In my opinion, it was completely far fetched and unrealistic. I don't think many soldiers on the frontline fell in love in the middle of a massive battle like Stalingrad. I understand that women did fight on the frontlines in Russia alongside the men, and I suppose it's possible to have found love in battle, but certainly not in the light-hearted innocent way portrayed in the movie. The romance was obviously added to create more appeal to a broader audience which in general knows little about history or war.

One other thing I thought was completely pathetic was the hanging of the boy by Major Koenig. Being of German heritage and a German citizen I felt insulted by this scene. It was obviously only added into the film to destroy any sympathy the audience may have had for Major Koenig before he was killed off.

Basically, this film is dry and boring and it really has no deeper meaning. I like a movie that makes you think i.e. "Das Boot", "Full Metal Jacket", "Stalingrad", "Platoon" etc. I would say that watching this movie was equivilant to reading something along the lines of a children's book.

 

[Lt. Dan]

Yes that was an awesome movie. Thankfully they have someone good playing the part of Lee this time! (The actor who played Lee in Gettysburg was a horrible R.E.Lee)

Gods and Generals could have been alot better. The only scene that I can really remember living up to its full potential was the silent attack on Union lines towards the end of the movie. the silent advance was aesthetically very well done, and in my opinion the best scene in the movie. Despite this, I believe alot of the movie was a little overly dramatic and at times I felt like I was at a bible study.

The PG-13 rating hurt it alot I think. You can't get a real sense of the chaos and hell that combat is when everyone who is being shot looks like they're tripping on a rock or falling over for no apparent reason. The next movie should go for a R rating so the filmmakers don't have to water it down.

One final note. I thought Martin Sheen did a much better job at playing Robert E. Lee in Gettysburg then Robert Duvall in Gods and Generals.

 

[Mantis]

Don't hold your breath...Vietnam won't be the last war to be made in negative spotlight.

I'll bet you in 10 years, there will be Hollywood movies about Bush & Cheney chasing after oil and ordering the US troops to murder the innocent Iraqis over a barrel of oil.

Ahhh. A documentary.

 

[Cheetah772]

Ahhh. A documentary.

Yes, a movie documentary to be brought to your nearest movie theater by Canadian production with a couple of German and French narrators or reporters giving one of the most unique reports of early 21st century.

No wonder Canada, France, and Germany are so angry...it's all for their public relations!

Dan