Encirclerment

SFiedler

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Hi

A SQ in a foxhole in a hex that contains smoke is encircled and broken. In the rout phase the squad routs to an adjacent open ground hex.

WHat is the cost?

A. 3 - 1 for moving out of FH and 2 for double OG cost due to encirclement?
B 4 - 2 for moving out of FH and doubled OG?
C 6 - Out of FH and smoke doubled to 4 and then OG doubled as well?
D - something else (Explain)
 

STAVKA

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Answer: B , 4 MF. One MF out of Foxhole amd 1 MF for Open ground x2 =4 MF

The cost can never be an odd number (i.e., 2 MF, 4 MF, 6 MF or all MF).
 

Eagle4ty

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B-Smoke doesn't apply to movement costs in the Advance Phase
Nice to know, but has very little to do with the RtPh. :D Just say'n. (ya probably missed it as I did with my first glance). Actually the move has to do with it being encircled.
 

EJ1

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I considered the following in trying to sum the MFs:
  • Encircled: MFs for first Location entered is doubled (A7.7)
  • Entrenchments: Entrenchments are not considered different Locations within the hex they occupy (A2.8)
  • RtPh and Entrenchments: units still pay 3MFs to enter and exit foxholes during RtPh (B27.41)
  • Smoke: costs one extra MF to enter a SMOKE Location during MPh/RtPh (A24.7)
So, I'm counting: 1 to exit the foxhole, +1 for the smoke, + (1 to move to adjacent open ground x 2 for entering it's first Location while Encircled) for a sum of 4Mfs. Ans. B for me. Yes? No?

Yet, exiting the foxhole is not entering a new Location. Thus, does the smoke apply to exiting the foxhole? I always played that it would. B0.2 applies to enterance of a hex, and exiting the foxhole is not entering a hex. If not, then 3MFs?
 
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Eagle4ty

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You only spend additional MF/MP to enter a SMOKE Location (A24.7) so in as much as the Foxhole and the terrain outside the foxhole are the same location (B27.13) you do not have to spend an additional MF for that purpose when exiting the foxhole. The same is true for movement when encircled (only entering the 1st new location) so the only terrain that would have to be double MF cost is the 1st new hex he's entering (A7.7). Thus the MF cost is one to exit the Foxhole (disregard the SMOKE as you're not entering a different location) and two to enter the new OG hex (the first location you have entered), total cost thus far 3MF. As for the answer to EJ1: No.
 
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jrv

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Hi

A SQ in a foxhole in a hex that contains smoke is encircled and broken. In the rout phase the squad routs to an adjacent open ground hex.

WHat is the cost?

A. 3 - 1 for moving out of FH and 2 for double OG cost due to encirclement?
B 4 - 2 for moving out of FH and doubled OG?
C 6 - Out of FH and smoke doubled to 4 and then OG doubled as well?
D - something else (Explain)
q&a said:
A7.7 Is the cost to encircled units to cross hexside terrain doubled? The cost to enter smoke? If moving uphill, would the cost be quadrupled? If entering abrupt terrain, is the cost of intermediate levels doubled?
A. Yes to all; this doubling occurs after all modification. [Compil8]
The SMOKE in the current hex is of no consequence for MF costs. The unit is not entering a location with SMOKE, so there is no additional charge [A24.7]

Based on the q&a I would say there are two options. Per B27.41 the unit may combine the exit MF from a foxhole with the entrance MF of the other location (and possibly the entrance of another foxhole, which is not relevent here) during the RtPh at its option. So the unit could exit the foxhole and move into the next hex as one combined expenditure of two MF, which would double to four MF. Or the unit could exit the foxhole for one MF (not doubled because it is not entering another location), then spend two MF entering the open ground hex.

Similarly an encircled unit only spends one MF to recover a weapon, one MF or two MF to place a SMOKE grenade, etc., all without doubling, because it is not entering a new location from its encircled location when it does so.

JR
 

Matt Book

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Nice to know, but has very little to do with the RtPh. :D Just say'n. (ya probably missed it as I did with my first glance). Actually the move has to do with it being encircled.
Good catch, I didn't see it either, but you don't pay for smoke in your location in this case so I had the spread covered.
 

Eagle4ty

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The SMOKE in the current hex is of no consequence for MF costs. The unit is not entering a location with SMOKE, so there is no additional charge [A24.7]

Based on the q&a I would say there are two options. Per B27.41 the unit may combine the exit MF from a foxhole with the entrance MF of the other location (and possibly the entrance of another foxhole, which is not relevent here) during the RtPh at its option. So the unit could exit the foxhole and move into the next hex as one combined expenditure of two MF, which would double to four MF. Or the unit could exit the foxhole for one MF (not doubled because it is not entering another location), then spend two MF entering the open ground hex.

Similarly an encircled unit only spends one MF to recover a weapon, one MF or two MF to place a SMOKE grenade, etc., all without doubling, because it is not entering a new location from its encircled location when it does so.

JR
Good catch, now as I look at it you do spend the MF as a combined movement when routing (unlike normal movement where you must spend 1MF in the foxhole location to exit) so as you say it may be very possible the MF cost during the RtPh may be 4 MF after-all but not because one spends a MF for the SMOKE in the foxhole location. Interesting to say the least!
 

Vinnie

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The SMOKE in the current hex is of no consequence for MF costs. The unit is not entering a location with SMOKE, so there is no additional charge [A24.7]

Based on the q&a I would say there are two options. Per B27.41 the unit may combine the exit MF from a foxhole with the entrance MF of the other location (and possibly the entrance of another foxhole, which is not relevent here) during the RtPh at its option. So the unit could exit the foxhole and move into the next hex as one combined expenditure of two MF, which would double to four MF. Or the unit could exit the foxhole for one MF (not doubled because it is not entering another location), then spend two MF entering the open ground hex.

Similarly an encircled unit only spends one MF to recover a weapon, one MF or two MF to place a SMOKE grenade, etc., all without doubling, because it is not entering a new location from its encircled location when it does so.

JR
If an enemy unit was ADJACENT to the foxhole, would he have the option of spending separate mf to come out and then exit? He could still come out and exit as one.
 

jrv

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If an enemy unit was ADJACENT to the foxhole, would he have the option of spending separate mf to come out and then exit? He could still come out and exit as one.
I believe the unit need not combine the MF, although it can. It is not routing from one hex ADJACENT to another hex ADJACENT, but in this situation it is not moving from one hex to another; it is moving within the same hex. There is another restriction, that a unit may never move ADJACENT to a KEU unless it leaving that unit's Location, but I think that means that it can't enter a location that is ADJACENT from one that is not ADJACENT. It might be interpreted the other way, however.

JR
 

EagleIV

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I read and play the rule as ALL MF costs of entering the first location are doubled, so it is 4MF in the APh or 6MF total in the MPh since you have to pay the SMOKE costs.
 

Eagle4ty

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If an enemy unit was ADJACENT to the foxhole, would he have the option of spending separate mf to come out and then exit? He could still come out and exit as one.
If an enemy unit was ADJACENT, the broken unit would simply surrender to him as it was encircled and broken.
 

jrv

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If an enemy unit was ADJACENT, the broken unit would simply surrender to him as it was encircled and broken.
Perhaps the encircled broken unit was a Fanatic SS Gurkha Partisan Commissar vs Russians after No Quarter had been declared.

JR
 

SFiedler

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Perhaps the encircled broken unit was a Fanatic SS Gurkha Partisan Commissar vs Russians after No Quarter had been declared.

JR
In this case its marines facing japanese in 1944 on Edsons ridge. Nq is in effect.
 
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