EF Video

[junk2drive]

Nobody posts here anymore?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2u71A8iIxI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUs7NcwPrqQOi5IOX0fvkiMw

 

[slm]

Tank riders...

And will be added to CMBN as well in 3.0 upgrade, which is great.

 

[NUTTERNAME]

It appears that there were some casualties but not many. If you are on top of a tank, you are not only exposed but right in the fragmentation splash heights. An artillery shell landing to the sides of the tank is spraying its fragmentation to its sides. So being up top would be much more dangerous than walking. Even fragments that miss you might ricochet off the tank and hit you. In actual battles, the Germans would attack the tank riders with arty and mortars to get them to jump off and therefore separate the armor from the infantry.

 

[slm]

In actual battles, the Germans would attack the tank riders with arty and mortars to get them to jump off and therefore separate the armor from the infantry.

Isn't that's what is happening in the video?
It would be nice to know though, whether infantry will jump off if enough shells land nearby.

 

[dalem]

Isn't that's what is happening in the video?
It would be nice to know though, whether infantry will jump off if enough shells land nearby.

They managed it in a game engine they wrote 15 years ago, you'd think they could get done now in their CM: Beyond Belief system.

-dale

 

[NUTTERNAME]

Isn't that's what is happening in the video?
It would be nice to know though, whether infantry will jump off if enough shells land nearby.

It certainly looks like the Germans have caught them in a barrage in that video. But it appears that they take minimal casualties and just continue to sit on the tanks. I have to reread 'Tank Rider', it was a fairly good read from a officer in the Soviet 4th tank army. I remember the training stressed getting on and off a moving tank as a way to stay alive. Also, automatic weapons were the norm and closing with the enemy was their main function. Hence the need to get a ride. they took great casualties and so did the tanks they rode on.

My take on tank riding is there is two basic types. Those crammed onto a tank for a free ride to the action, and cases where very few infantrymen are actually on the tank as it is in action with the enemy. In action, the few grunts on top are hunkered down behind the turret and laying flat across the rear deck. I am sure the tank riders appreciated the T34/85's larger turret size. Just to have something to hide behind. But to have a full squad bunched up like grapes as artillery, mortar and machinegun bursts target the tank is suicidal. A MG42 firing from a flank could stall out the tank engine by making a spritz of blood and guts rain onto the rear deck. Well, maybe not but I like the idea.

 

[WBRP]

It also seems that passenger casualties still just disappear. No bodies laying in/on the vehicle or falling to the ground.

 

[NUTTERNAME]

This link has a a synopsis of the Tank Rider book. It seems that they would leap off when encountering enemy fire. Much like halftracks, the passengers are probably better off on foot once contact is made.

http://balagan.info/bessonov-tank-rider-mount-the-tanks

 

[slm]

It also seems that passenger casualties still just disappear. No bodies laying in/on the vehicle or falling to the ground.

I think that's because creating falling animations would be too much work.
At least I view the game most of the time from camera height where you can't see soldier animations.
So I appreciate BF using their development effort to tasks that affect game play, not just visuals.

Many big CMBN scenarios will also play differently once tank riding becomes possible.

 

[Redwolf]

Is there hope they release this soon?

 

[slm]

Is there hope the release this soon?

Just a guess, but I think it could be released during Q1/2014.
I'm almost positive it will happen before the summer.

 

[NUTTERNAME]

Just a guess, but I think it could be released during Q1/2014.
I'm almost positive it will happen before the summer.

Market Garden was also touted as being 'close' something like 9 months away. And it still was buggy. Perhaps 3.0 will bring it's own time consumption.

I am hoping 3.0 brings some interface tweaks. The game gets annoying to control.

 

[NUTTERNAME]

Here is Steve confirming that Tank Riders rolled all the way to a target when under fire...

Knowing the TO&E for Soviet forces, I'm not worried that they're going to be misused. When you drop a company of tank riders off inside the German defenses you'll likely find two things:

1. The survivors that weren't picked off on the way to the German trenches are probably not in excellent condition generally speaking.

2. If they don't immediately overwhelm the defenders, they're most likely going to be ineffective pretty soon there after.

He has no clue what he is talking about. It's just another example of the gaminess that supports the "Fun Pro-Attacker Theme" the game likes to 'model'. In the same thread, he denounces 'Command-Delay' as gamey. Unreal.

 

[NUTTERNAME]

Is there hope the release this soon?

Steve claims they almost made Elvis a winner in the bet. That is, they just missed a 2013 release date.

I am certainly interested in what the 3.0 entails. I don't expect any quantum leaps. I think they are in 'Crank-Mode' and need the products released in whatever condition they think they can get away with.

 

[ksbearski]

Is there hope they release this soon?

Within our lifetime....maybe...

 

[[hirr]Leto]

Within our lifetime....maybe...

That they shy away from the early war stuff to head for the more exciting 44 -45 uber tank era saddens me.

cheers!

Leto

 

[NUTTERNAME]

That they shy away from the early war stuff to head for the more exciting 44 -45 uber tank era saddens me.

cheers!

Leto

Well, sadness aside, even a yahoo might realize that it is all about what has already been 'done'. They are leveraging work that has already been 'done' and repackaging it as new product. And they have even been open about it. Of course, given the inanity of the whole "Gosh, wots we gonna do about the CMMG and CMCW conflict of product?" BS...well, it is apparent that when things work their way, it is great for the hobby...but when it doesn't behoove Mr Customer...well, it is what it is.

And, uh Mr. Yahoo, what exactly is so exciting about Bagration again?

 

[Elvis]

That they shy away from the early war stuff to head for the more exciting 44 -45 uber tank era saddens me.

cheers!

Leto

There is some truth to what NUTT is saying. MG and CW seem to be the extreme examples. When it comes to the Eastern front and Italy games having some aspects done and able to be brought to a different theater helps. That said, I felt the amount of added stuff with Italy and the as yet unannounced things on the Eastern front are far more than repackaging of existing units. Because of CW, with Market Garden they tried to over compensate because of some unit overlap. Whether they succeeded in that is up to the player.

 

[[hirr]Leto]

There is some truth to what NUTT is saying. MG and CW seem to be the extreme examples. When it comes to the Eastern front and Italy games having some aspects done and able to be brought to a different theater helps. That said, I felt the amount of added stuff with Italy and the as yet unannounced things on the Eastern front are far more than repackaging of existing units. Because of CW, with Market Garden they tried to over compensate because of some unit overlap. Whether they succeeded in that is up to the player.

Actually, I do get it. I am not lambasting them for doing what they are doing, just wishing upon a star, which I think is a perfectly fine thing to do in comparison to others around here.

My personal preferences have always been focused around the early war stuff, which due to its uninspiring historical context, doesn't present a highly marketable product. I guess having played with Squad Leader early on in my highly successful and tail rich life, I really got drawn to the French, Polish and early Russian front (Balkans) desert and Italian theatres up to 43. One of my favorite Campaign Series scenarios involved a FJ attack on Yugoslavian partisans supported by old Renault tanks.

Are you still beta testing elvis? Do you have any window on EF, as I will most likely buy that one... haven't really had any desire to explore Market Garden, but sadly, my time is quite limited now by family and my own success in the research grant world.

Cheers!

Leto

 

[NUTTERNAME]

So it's OK to reuse formations and weapons from game to game but not within families? Is this the new party-line? Or can 'packs' trump this law under a 'rock-paper-scissors-packs' over-ride-clause?

Are 'Features' still the domain of a 'Family-Starter'? Has there been anything like an announcement regarding what features will be in? Fire? Tank-Riders? Mine-Rollers? Spam?

As great as it is to watch a cheezy video (of tank riders, not that MD wierdness with the antitank gun), I would just prefer a open discussion of what will be in. This might start meaningful discussions before the 'finished' product is unleashed a gullible and starving wargaming community.