Legion
Member
Hey Y'all... in 50 words or less, thoughts on the Edison's Ridge CG
Edison's Ridge CG
- Thread starter Legion
- Start date
ross
Member
Do you mean impressions or tactics?
Impressions: one word - wow! Joe W and I are currently in the last CG Date (Sept 14 Day) and it's been a blast to play. I strongly recommend this CG; don't be put off my the Night rules (as three of the five potential CG Dates take place at night). Use one of the other OWT scenarios to learn or review the Night rules, but once you play one Night battle, the rules are fairly easy to play.
Tactics: as with any Attacker at night, the Japanese need to maintain cloaking as long as possible in order to hustle through the jungle and reach the Marines. I think my Japanese forces surprised the Marines with a wide sweeping manuever from the west board edge (top view in VASL) that ended overrunning Hill 120 from the North (using several banzais!) during the Sept 13 Night 1 CG Date. I'm not sure what the best strategy for the Marines is, but the Marines should be aware of the minimum CVP losses they must suffer in order to permit their use of an Attack chit in the Sept 13 Day CG Date. The FPF Barrage (CG18 rule) is an especially nasty deterrent the Marines can use to either channel the Japanese attack or to guard a weak flank. We never did figure out the Bombardment Plotting sheet, so we can't really attest to that RG selection. We both ended up purchasing Air Support for this final CG Date, but have yet to roll low enough to receive them as we've only just begun the third player turn. Our battle seems destined to come down to the final CCPh, as my Japanese forces have enough VPs, so his Marines have to regain the hills to prevent a Japanese victory.
Play this CG, it's an awesome ASL experience.
EDIT: oops, I went over 50 words, let the caning begin...
Impressions: one word - wow! Joe W and I are currently in the last CG Date (Sept 14 Day) and it's been a blast to play. I strongly recommend this CG; don't be put off my the Night rules (as three of the five potential CG Dates take place at night). Use one of the other OWT scenarios to learn or review the Night rules, but once you play one Night battle, the rules are fairly easy to play.
Tactics: as with any Attacker at night, the Japanese need to maintain cloaking as long as possible in order to hustle through the jungle and reach the Marines. I think my Japanese forces surprised the Marines with a wide sweeping manuever from the west board edge (top view in VASL) that ended overrunning Hill 120 from the North (using several banzais!) during the Sept 13 Night 1 CG Date. I'm not sure what the best strategy for the Marines is, but the Marines should be aware of the minimum CVP losses they must suffer in order to permit their use of an Attack chit in the Sept 13 Day CG Date. The FPF Barrage (CG18 rule) is an especially nasty deterrent the Marines can use to either channel the Japanese attack or to guard a weak flank. We never did figure out the Bombardment Plotting sheet, so we can't really attest to that RG selection. We both ended up purchasing Air Support for this final CG Date, but have yet to roll low enough to receive them as we've only just begun the third player turn. Our battle seems destined to come down to the final CCPh, as my Japanese forces have enough VPs, so his Marines have to regain the hills to prevent a Japanese victory.
Play this CG, it's an awesome ASL experience.
EDIT: oops, I went over 50 words, let the caning begin...
sgtono
Member
Great CG!! We are in the third night. Americans, OBA and a pre-registered hex does wonders. Make sure you HIP to your limit, which is quite generous. Buying HIP and set DCs make wonderful traps.
Keith
Keith
King Scott
Senior Member
I'm currently into the third scenario as the defending Marines. This is an awesome CG so far.
Most important for the Marines is the use of OBA. Buy as much as you possibly can with as many pre-registered hexes as possible...you WILL need them! Also, you need to eat up the clock and delay the Japanese as long as possible...pray for the scenarios to end early!
Luckily I was able to hold onto all but 6 level 4 hexes on the forward hill during the first night scenario. Would have limited the Japanese to only 4 if not for his last minute dash through a gap in my flank and making a rush for the summit in my backfield (he took the four forward most hexes, and the last-minute rear two hexes of the forward hill)...lots of CC/HtH down in the jungle on the Marine left...actually did well with 3 of my squads killed, but took 2 Japanese with them. TOtal losses for the Marines was approximately 4 squads, approximately 6 for the Japanese...overall low casualties.
I went idle for the day scenarios, employing psychological ploys to give the impression of the Marines *having* to attack to regain the lost hexes...ploy worked and the Japanese also went idle. This may be key in the game as I have removed 20% of his time to capture locations, and the forward hill is worth high points only during the first two scenarios...6 hexes first scenario equals 12 VP, then only 6 more for the second, total of only 18 VP earned by the Japanese going into the third scenario.
Third scenario started off with 'in-your-face" attacks from the Japanese against both hills. I decided to abandon the forward hill and concentrate defenses on the rear hill (Hill 120?). Use of two 60mm FPF Barrages and two 105mm OBA modules (both with pre-reg hexes) was able to catch the first assault against the rear hill...after 2 turns there are 9 japanese squads in "the cup of death"...Marine losses are just a half squad so far. The OBA utterly destroyed the first assault (an entire company dead!!!), now the second assault is ready to stream down from the forward hill to assault the rear hill, pissed about the dummies holding them up for 2 turns on the forward hill.
For the Marines, use the first scenario to place most (if not all) of your Trenches on the rear hill...the rear hill is too valuable to lose, and fortification cost a lot to try to build later on. In addition, use the first scenario to place/buy as many 3S Foxholes as you can...these can quickly be upgraded to Trenches for the second/third scenarios.
I now have a fortress attop the rear hill with 2 MG platoons led by 10-2s (rolled two snakes on leader generation in the initial scenario), a company of Raiders, 2 FPF Barrages covering the jungle edge to the right, and 2 105mm OBA modules supporting. The Japanese will have to brave some heavy fire to get on top to try to pry me loose.
WAY more than 50 words...sorry, but I *really* am having fun with this CG and wanted to share some events/tips.
Semper Fi!
Scott
Most important for the Marines is the use of OBA. Buy as much as you possibly can with as many pre-registered hexes as possible...you WILL need them! Also, you need to eat up the clock and delay the Japanese as long as possible...pray for the scenarios to end early!
Luckily I was able to hold onto all but 6 level 4 hexes on the forward hill during the first night scenario. Would have limited the Japanese to only 4 if not for his last minute dash through a gap in my flank and making a rush for the summit in my backfield (he took the four forward most hexes, and the last-minute rear two hexes of the forward hill)...lots of CC/HtH down in the jungle on the Marine left...actually did well with 3 of my squads killed, but took 2 Japanese with them. TOtal losses for the Marines was approximately 4 squads, approximately 6 for the Japanese...overall low casualties.
I went idle for the day scenarios, employing psychological ploys to give the impression of the Marines *having* to attack to regain the lost hexes...ploy worked and the Japanese also went idle. This may be key in the game as I have removed 20% of his time to capture locations, and the forward hill is worth high points only during the first two scenarios...6 hexes first scenario equals 12 VP, then only 6 more for the second, total of only 18 VP earned by the Japanese going into the third scenario.
Third scenario started off with 'in-your-face" attacks from the Japanese against both hills. I decided to abandon the forward hill and concentrate defenses on the rear hill (Hill 120?). Use of two 60mm FPF Barrages and two 105mm OBA modules (both with pre-reg hexes) was able to catch the first assault against the rear hill...after 2 turns there are 9 japanese squads in "the cup of death"...Marine losses are just a half squad so far. The OBA utterly destroyed the first assault (an entire company dead!!!), now the second assault is ready to stream down from the forward hill to assault the rear hill, pissed about the dummies holding them up for 2 turns on the forward hill.
For the Marines, use the first scenario to place most (if not all) of your Trenches on the rear hill...the rear hill is too valuable to lose, and fortification cost a lot to try to build later on. In addition, use the first scenario to place/buy as many 3S Foxholes as you can...these can quickly be upgraded to Trenches for the second/third scenarios.
I now have a fortress attop the rear hill with 2 MG platoons led by 10-2s (rolled two snakes on leader generation in the initial scenario), a company of Raiders, 2 FPF Barrages covering the jungle edge to the right, and 2 105mm OBA modules supporting. The Japanese will have to brave some heavy fire to get on top to try to pry me loose.
WAY more than 50 words...sorry, but I *really* am having fun with this CG and wanted to share some events/tips.
Semper Fi!
Scott
Tycho
Member
Yep, it's an awesome CG! Keith (aka sgtono) is kicking my ass - Banzing into 100+mm pre-reg smarts a bit - but I'm having a blast nontheless. Play I the first time with someone you like, and it's a painless way to learn the night rules as well.
Tycho
Tycho
WaterRabbit
Member
I too am on the third game of the campaign. I don't know why the Japs would ever pick an idle chit in this campaign (maybe the last day if they had met all of the VCs and were just holding on to the 5 level 4 hexes). I as the Japs selected the Bombardment RG on the 2nd Day and really put the hurt on the Marines. I had him confined to such a small space that unless I rolled poorly on the excluded rows he was going to take some damage. The bombardment on average should not generate much effect if the Marine player stays in his foxholes (an effective 10 morale). However, if they leave the hill and/or don't setup in the foxhole/trench/pb they will get hurt.
This is a fairly good CG so far (other than my usual complaint about the 'balance by dice' concept so many poor designers employ). There are too many refit phase items that one has to roll for that detract from the overall fun of the game. Nothing sucks more than to spend 8 points for an Engineering platoon only to have it become depleted RG due to a DR. Of the 10 Infantry RGs I have purchased so far, 4 of them have been depleted.
I have always thought the dr for game end is also silly. The CGs should be 6 turns and if you have selected the Attack chit you should be able to purchase more turns.
I think one of the most important keys to this game is the selection of Objective hexes. Also, the Japs have the momentum in this CG until what looks like the last day -- assuming they are careful not to inflict too many Marine casualties on the first night. I think the key for the Marines is the use of OBA with field phones and pre-reg. Two modules of 100mm can really hamper the Japanese. I also think the Marines need to plan on making Hill 120 as their strong point. The Japs are going to get all of Hill 100 by the end of the second game. The Marines just need to make sure they pay for it. At the end of the second CG both the Marines and the Japs had taken approximately 50% looses. The H-t-H combat that happens makes it a fairly bloody CG. It is also difficult for the Japs to ambush the Marines due to the Stealthy Raiders. After the first CG date, I think the Marine player should put at least a Raider HS with each non-stealthy unit.
Uh, did you say 50 or 500... (I’m only at 446)
This is a fairly good CG so far (other than my usual complaint about the 'balance by dice' concept so many poor designers employ). There are too many refit phase items that one has to roll for that detract from the overall fun of the game. Nothing sucks more than to spend 8 points for an Engineering platoon only to have it become depleted RG due to a DR. Of the 10 Infantry RGs I have purchased so far, 4 of them have been depleted.
I have always thought the dr for game end is also silly. The CGs should be 6 turns and if you have selected the Attack chit you should be able to purchase more turns.
I think one of the most important keys to this game is the selection of Objective hexes. Also, the Japs have the momentum in this CG until what looks like the last day -- assuming they are careful not to inflict too many Marine casualties on the first night. I think the key for the Marines is the use of OBA with field phones and pre-reg. Two modules of 100mm can really hamper the Japanese. I also think the Marines need to plan on making Hill 120 as their strong point. The Japs are going to get all of Hill 100 by the end of the second game. The Marines just need to make sure they pay for it. At the end of the second CG both the Marines and the Japs had taken approximately 50% looses. The H-t-H combat that happens makes it a fairly bloody CG. It is also difficult for the Japs to ambush the Marines due to the Stealthy Raiders. After the first CG date, I think the Marine player should put at least a Raider HS with each non-stealthy unit.
Uh, did you say 50 or 500...
(I’m only at 446)
>I have always thought the dr for game end is also silly. The CGs should be 6 turns and if you have selected the Attack chit you should be able to purchase more turns.
I actually like this mechanic, because you never know when the scenario is going to end, so you can't plan accordingly. Throws a little more uncertainty into the mix.
I actually like this mechanic, because you never know when the scenario is going to end, so you can't plan accordingly. Throws a little more uncertainty into the mix.
Jazz
Inactive
Gotta agree with Mad-Man Wolkey. One of the things that drive me up the wall is people doing silly-ass shit because the know it is the last turn of the scenario and they won't have to live with the consequences. The variable scenario end is one of the things I like best about CGs....Robert Wolkey said:
WaterRabbit
Member
That usually is more of a problem in non-CGs.
There is already enough uncertainty in ASL. The variable dr can really screw on side of a CG. Yes the variable dr is one way to simulate it -- just not the best choice. It is the lazy way.
There is already enough uncertainty in ASL. The variable dr can really screw on side of a CG. Yes the variable dr is one way to simulate it -- just not the best choice. It is the lazy way.
rdw5150
it's just a game
Tycho,
you LEARNED the Night rules in this CG!
Wow, I thought I would have to play a game or two of Night just to get it down before jumping into a CG.
Did you do it live or via VASL PBEM?
Peace
Roger
you LEARNED the Night rules in this CG!
Wow, I thought I would have to play a game or two of Night just to get it down before jumping into a CG.
Did you do it live or via VASL PBEM?
Peace
Roger
sgtono
Member
No, Tycho knew the rules before. We played geo board night scenarios before starting this CG. We play live on VASL.rdw5150 said:
Keith
Legion
Member
Yup, couldn't agree more... though i think Water Rabbit has a point about the Depletion rolls etc... they are (at least) too harsh and can lead to a CG being unbalanced before a shot is firedRobert Wolkey said:
Legion
Member
And i thank you all for the posts (in some cases AARs!) you have all convinced me that it is time for me to give me beloved Japanese a new mission!
Jazz
Inactive
Actually, I think playing a CG that requires night (PB, ER) is the best way to learn them.rdw5150 said:
The night rules are not that hard and 3-4 consequtive night scenarios kinda heat seals them into your brain.
After that, there is no night scenario angst when someone wants to play one.
Legion
Member
And of course once one starts playing CGs then quickly you see that the Daylight scenarios are historically inaccurate in out-numbering the Night scenarios... WW2 didn't stop when the lights went out.
Although i would love to play less of the bloody things (my current average is 2:1 Night: Day) i heartily urge every player from newbies up to pull out the Night rules and give them a bash...
Although i would love to play less of the bloody things (my current average is 2:1 Night: Day) i heartily urge every player from newbies up to pull out the Night rules and give them a bash...
WaterRabbit
Member
The primary problem I have with the variable Scenario End dr is its arbitrariness. It is not based upon either side or what is happening in the game itself. I prefer a mechanic that is based upon the force stance of the two sides or upon events that have occurred during the game up to that point. The random dr is just arbitrary and usually hoses the side that chose the attack chit. It seems to me that if I have to spend 2 CPPs to go on attack I should have some influence over when the scenario ends.
I would even prefer an NOBA-like draw pile with 5 black chits and 1 red chit. Each turn you past 6 you add another red chit. The side that selected the attack has the option of adding another black chit plus can buy 1 or two more to add. They would be like a CG RG and thus you would be limited to how many you could buy over the course of the campaign.
Again, I think the depletion rolls are annoying at best. I should at least get a rebate for a depleted RG.
I am also not much of a fan for the random leader selection. I would prefer to buy headquarters units. You would have to buy so many I RGs before you could purchase a HQ RG. And they would be limited like everything else.
To me the fun of the CGs is in making the hard decisions of what to purchase, how many, and how to accomplish my objectives with what I have. I really like the Objective hex mechanic. It allows almost complete freedom as to which hexes you may choose. However, the hard decision is which hexes to choose to support your overall goals. IMHO, it is mechanics like this and not design by randomness that make the game fun.
I would even prefer an NOBA-like draw pile with 5 black chits and 1 red chit. Each turn you past 6 you add another red chit. The side that selected the attack has the option of adding another black chit plus can buy 1 or two more to add. They would be like a CG RG and thus you would be limited to how many you could buy over the course of the campaign.
Again, I think the depletion rolls are annoying at best. I should at least get a rebate for a depleted RG.
I am also not much of a fan for the random leader selection. I would prefer to buy headquarters units. You would have to buy so many I RGs before you could purchase a HQ RG. And they would be limited like everything else.
To me the fun of the CGs is in making the hard decisions of what to purchase, how many, and how to accomplish my objectives with what I have. I really like the Objective hex mechanic. It allows almost complete freedom as to which hexes you may choose. However, the hard decision is which hexes to choose to support your overall goals. IMHO, it is mechanics like this and not design by randomness that make the game fun.
'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
I agree the scenario end dr sucks pond water. I was playing the B:RV CG (initial scenario) and had just cleared all the Germans from the Moltke Bridge and the immediately surrounding buildings. All that remained intact for the Germans was a single MG cupola in the road on the German side of the bridge, which was going to be dealt with by an IS-2 driving into its hex. The bridge was about to be stormed by 3 platoons of armour and scads of Russian bodies..next turn. I was just far enough back from the bridge that I couldn't get but a single squad to the other side of the bridge and even then, it wouldn't be able to get into any buildings across the river. Reinforcement from the Kronprinzen would have allowed crossing of -that- bridge and would have been done under fire at any rate. So here I am sitting pretty when I rolled the damn scenario end! Needless to say, I wasn't pleased but what can you do?
I do like the DRM in Veritable that makes the minimum scenario length at least 6 turns, but couldn't the the whole process be pushed back a turn??
I do like the DRM in Veritable that makes the minimum scenario length at least 6 turns, but couldn't the the whole process be pushed back a turn??
da priest
Member
Chuckle..old Fezzi, want some cheese with that whine?:laugh:
Let's see you planned the attack(just a tad slow), it was going swimmingly and the da*ned dice took the control from you...seems a familiar thread.
BI, kickin' him when he's down, but the da*ned dice without BI allowed the guy to comeback? Lost control again, didn't ya.:laugh:
Bet ya use the InfidelIFT, cause ya can't stand it when your 15fp shot is a 12fp shot on the old IFT, thus you don't Pin the guy before CC, losing same! Dice messed with your control again...:devil:
You wouldn't be one of the dudes complaining about the lack of Command Control rules would ya, that'd just be rich...:smoke:
Let's see you planned the attack(just a tad slow), it was going swimmingly and the da*ned dice took the control from you...seems a familiar thread.
BI, kickin' him when he's down, but the da*ned dice without BI allowed the guy to comeback? Lost control again, didn't ya.:laugh:
Bet ya use the InfidelIFT, cause ya can't stand it when your 15fp shot is a 12fp shot on the old IFT, thus you don't Pin the guy before CC, losing same! Dice messed with your control again...:devil:
You wouldn't be one of the dudes complaining about the lack of Command Control rules would ya, that'd just be rich...:smoke:
WaterRabbit
Member
Oh, btw, I just finished the 3rd scenario of the ER CG and guess what? The scenario ended on Jap turn 6. I have an unbroken sting so far of being the CG Attacker and having the scenario end on turn 6. Every single time. I have yet to see a game go to turn 7 unless I am on the strategic defense.
In ER the Japs have to book, but they can only move 4 hexes per turn while cloaked in jungle. One more turn and I would have scored a butt load of VPs. My only consolation is that I succeeded in Isolating Hill 125 and the bulk of his on-board force.
So yes I would like a little cheese please.
In ER the Japs have to book, but they can only move 4 hexes per turn while cloaked in jungle. One more turn and I would have scored a butt load of VPs. My only consolation is that I succeeded in Isolating Hill 125 and the bulk of his on-board force.
So yes I would like a little cheese please.
'Ol Fezziwig
Repressed Dissident
da priest said:
da priest said:Chuckle..old Fezzi, want some cheese with that whine?:laugh: Let's see you planned the attack(just a tad slow), it was going swimmingly and the da*ned dice took the control from you...seems a familiar thread.Actually, the main defenses were on my side of the river. I had just cleaned up the last pocket of resistance on my side which is why most of my inf was out of position, when I recieved my Air Support which destroyed one of the 88s defending the approaches to the bridge, I had also broken the 20mm AA gun crew, destroyed one of the MG cupolas and broken the HMG in one of the overlooking buildings as well. So, what I was hoping to do was to exploit a sudden advantage. I probably wouldn't whine quite so much if my opponent didn't later lose all his setup info, resulting in an aborted CG :OHNO:
da priest said:BI, kickin' him when he's down, but the da*ned dice without BI allowed the guy to comeback? Lost control again, didn't ya.:laugh:I'd argue that BI shouldn't apply for either side in BRV, so the point is moot, eh?
Well, hell yeah I use the IIFT, what's a guy to use when he's out of TP? his hand? :nuts: You and I have been on the same side of the iift aisle, in fact.da priest said:
No, not particularly. Are they appropriate at this scale without many of the mechanisms in place already? (MC/TC/leadership benefits)I think the biggest weakness of ASL is the lack of platoon/company/battalion structures. While this _can_ be done by the player (as has been mentioned previously) it isn't encouraged or codified in any way. Perhaps adding platoon/company/battalion HQ units and having x number of units tracing to it could be painless manner of doing this. Having generic squad counters makes this liable to 'fudging' as to who would tracew to whom each time, though.da priest said: