EA Heldenkaiser (Allies) vs. Telumar (Axis)

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: The big picture, again

B) if you can retain the Kuban, and mask the Crimea, do the Soviets have the chance to launch amphibious assaults across the Black Sea at the Danube (in 1944, again) ?

I've been thinking about amphibious operations too, or rather their impossibility right now. Outside the Baltic, where they are useless, there are only two Russian ports left--Astrakhan and Arkhangelsk. Stefan has taken all others, and seeing where and when he's been advancing and where and when he stopped doing so, I have begun to wonder if there wasn't method to it. Even the Kuban offensive may have been primarily about taking my last Black Sea port, Novorossiysk, and getting to Maikop or in the rear of my Caucasus front may only have been the secondary objective or even some diversionary threat. (Funny thing btw that Rostov, one of the most important river ports of the European USSR, is no anchorage hex in the game. Nor is Azov, even more obvious, as it's both on the Don and the Black Sea coast.)

Edit: I just found that TOAW doesn't support river ports. I didn't know that! :shy:

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Allied Turn 145 / 5th April 1942

Oddly the replays of the Axis turns continue to be longer in the ceasefire turns than in the combat turns. I still can't make sense of all those movements. Some air wings returning from Spain, obviously; but some units are moving TO the mainland front and some AWAY FROM it. Mostly air, but some armour too. If there is any pattern, I'll expect an Axis offensive in the southern half of the mainland front, and of course in the Caucasus, but it doesn't look like a major buildup anywhere, so I am still not sure what will happen when the war recommences. Bridge repairing doesn't seem to be working at all during ceasefire turns btw. How so?

 

[L`zard]

Re: Allied Turn 145 / 5th April 1942

Oddly the replays of the Axis turns continue to be longer in the ceasefire turns than in the combat turns. I still can't make sense of all those movements. Some air wings returning from Spain, obviously; but some units are moving TO the mainland front and some AWAY FROM it. Mostly air, but some armour too. If there is any pattern, I'll expect an Axis offensive in the southern half of the mainland front, and of course in the Caucasus, but it doesn't look like a major buildup anywhere, so I am still not sure what will happen when the war recommences. Bridge repairing doesn't seem to be working at all during ceasefire turns btw. How so?[/QUOTE]

If I was guessing (which I am, lol) I'd say it's all about the weather. Mud and Snow probably have a very negative effect on your engineers. How many sqds per RRunit repairing?

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: Allied Turn 145 / 5th April 1942

If I was guessing (which I am, lol) I'd say it's all about the weather. Mud and Snow probably have a very negative effect on your engineers. How many sqds per RRunit repairing?

If there were mud and snow ... but Zone 2 weather says "overcast, cold, light precipitation". There is no snow outside the mountains. Nor mud. Is there ever? Or are you saying this is event-imposed?

Between 100 and 150 squads? BTW why doesn't engineering show in the special abilities section of the unit report?

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: Allied Turn 142 / 15th March 1942

I just scanned the manual and it doesn't say bridge building is affected by weather ... is it a fact that it is?

 

[medck]

Re: Allied Turn 142 / 15th March 1942

April 1942 and still no American entry? You've really had some bad luck there.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Allied Turn 146 / 12th April 1942

With the end of cease fire, Stefan starts some isolated attacks near Grozny and Kiev, all to no avail. We fare no better. Operation REPRIEVE, a grandiose design by Stavka to cut off the Kuban bridgehead and retake Novorossiysk, fails miserably. Not a single hex gained. A large force of two guards armies, four tank corps, and an artillery corps, no less, is unable to move a single third of a German Panzerkorps out of the way on the coastal road. One tank corps even evaporates. And I had put the largest chunk of my recent reinforcements behind that attack, but those Supergermans just won't budge. Guess it's not yet the time to fight back. But will it ever be? :upset:
View attachment 35039
Other than that, they're blowing bridges, we're blowing more bridges. Gibraltar still holds. So does Valladolid. Vichy is done though: I guess they changed sides once too often.

 

[Cfant]

Re: Allied Turn 146 / 12th April 1942

Not a single hex gained. A large force of two guards armies, four tank corps, and an artillery corps, no less, is unable to move a single third of a German Panzerkorps out of the way on the coastal road. One tank corps even evaporates. And I had put the largest chunk of my recent reinforcements behind that attack, but those Supergermans just won't budge. Guess it's not yet the time to fight back. But will it ever be? :upset:

Well, keep in mind: Any offensive is lead against General 3.4. ;-) The scenario is simply not based on 3.4. I only can tell from my experience, but I'd never again start a 3.2 scenario with patch version 3.4. It changes the balance too strong imo.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: Allied Turn 146 / 12th April 1942

Well, keep in mind: Any offensive is lead against General 3.4. ;-) The scenario is simply not based on 3.4. I only can tell from my experience, but I'd never again start a 3.2 scenario with patch version 3.4. It changes the balance too strong imo.

It did occur to me that the defensive is a bit strong in our game and that my having stopped the Germans in the East has more to do with that than with any defensive skills on my part. Of course that means, under our victory conditions, that the Axis will win more or less by default ...

 

[ogar]

Re: Allied Turn 146 / 12th April 1942

Just a guess, but I do think April 1942 is too early for the Soviet player to expect great success with offensives. I think the designers fairly closely followed the historic time line for the development of experience/expertise/doctrine in the Soviet arms. Not to say that a local offensive would not hurt, but that Kuban attempt was a major event.

As far as the Kuban attack, did you attack a line of static, fortified positions after several turns of imposed rest ? Who did you think you were playing -- Ogar ? You know he dug everything in as deep as it could go; and he pre-positioned air and artillery in defensive support. Even if the opponent were as bad a player as me, you'd still lose. It takes a lot of bombardment to break down that entrenchment level -- that is just a fact. And while you can shake units from F to D or even into reorg, they will still be in 100% entrenched hexes. Until, or unless you catch him unprepared -- and that is possible, look at your quiet sectors, he'll be expecting the old 1941 style counter-attack. Long dull turns of obvious bombardment may yield nothing to you, but they wear him down and tie him down to defending that sector.

Shifting to the long-term :

What defines "Germany and West. Europe" in the victory conditions ? What are the areas hardest for him to defend ? What are your key strengths -- Red Army, BomberCommand, USArmy (eventually), control of sea lanes ? Look at it from his perspective -- what does he have to hold to win ?

I mean this simply to help -- and if the tone got too strident, I apologize.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: The big picture, again

You're quite right, they were dug in up to their neckties, or beyond. I am not complaining. Still, this depended on a quick decision. I didn't want him to withdraw from the bridgehead, I wanted it cut off. It's only three hexes to the neck of the peninsula. I gave myself a 50/50 chance to get through that line with on quick blow with overwhelming numerical superiority. Maybe that was still too optimistic.

But still, does this trench warfare resemble WW2 or rather WW1? Because my proficiency etc. is much lower than his, and he doesn't get through my lines either ...

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: Allied Turn 146 / 12th April 1942

Look at it from his perspective -- what does he have to hold to win ?

A considerable amount of German real estate by end game. We were not quite specific as to what's considerable I am afraid, but it's neither all of Germany nor a couple of mountain hexes in the Bavarian Alps, but something in between.

 

[Cfant]

Re: Allied Turn 146 / 12th April 1942

3.4's changes in the defense not only result in higher losses, if you attack, but also more time burning in your attacks, a lot more ETEs and - one of the most imporatant results - it is much harder to dig out fortified troops. In a Pierro-match we stopped on turn 40. Neither germans nor entente were able to dig out enemy troops. Every offensive stalled like your last one.
I found it less probmlematic in an ww2-scenario, where airforce and better artillery may achieve some success, bit at least... expect much bloodier fights for the attacking side. I think you should have continued with 3.2. On the other hand - 3.4 may also have saved the USSR. Who knows?

 

[ogar]

Re: Allied Turn 146 / 12th April 1942

Thanks for the response.

I know that 3.4 shifted things, but I do not think the problem is entirely 3.4 (and I do not think it's only your style of play).

I had several plays of Anzio at 3.2 and at 3.4 - of course, Stefan kept tweaking it - but either side could quickly put up a formidable defensive line in a few turns. And it took repeated intensive shelling to help make a minor break through - on both versions. Still, the old old "TOAW favors the attacker" complaint was addressed by 3.4 and we are seeing the results now.

Historically, though, almost all the Red Army offensives 1943-onwards were set-piece, grind down the fortified line, grind through a thick defensive zone, and maybe achieve a break-out. Very much Monty-in-the-Bocage (minus the 2nd TAF naturally).

Glad to hear that you are not too discouraged - as I wrote above, I'm probably telling you the things that I need to tell myself after another disquieting turn.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: Allied Turn 146 / 12th April 1942

Historically, though, almost all the Red Army offensives 1943-onwards were set-piece, grind down the fortified line, grind through a thick defensive zone, and maybe achieve a break-out. Very much Monty-in-the-Bocage (minus the 2nd TAF naturally).

And minus the bocage, to be sure!

Glad to hear that you are not too discouraged - as I wrote above, I'm probably telling you the things that I need to tell myself after another disquieting turn.

I'll keep waiting, counting, hammering, and eventually pushing. Mind you, I believe I did this offensive not the least so I could paint a fancy operational map for this thread, now that I know how-to.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Allied Turn 147 / 19th April 1942

Stefan throws in the heavy stuff. SS Panzerkorps "Wotan" comes up from the centre of their Kuban position to block that Black Sea coastal road on which we were not making the slightest headway anyway, as if to say "try as you may, you won't get through here". East of Kiev, he is also bringing up two SS Panzerkorps, II and IV, the first of which being an incredible 32-20. I can't say I have seen anything like it in this game, or even close. My very, very strong mech corps are like 12-10 or so. It's hopeless, isn't it? -- East of Kiev the Germans are gaining two hexes towards the open ground, but we're two lines deep here and throwing up a new second line right now. But there's only open steppe behind that front ... they must not get through! -- One hex closer to Maikop in the Kuban too. I am shifting reserves to bolster that front as well.
View attachment 35055
Elsewhere. Gibraltar is still holding--barely. Three defending units left, 2-2, 1-1, 1-1. Next turn, no doubt. The Terek pocket gone (one HQ was left). Bridge bombing only in the West; the entire Red Air Force is in reorg this turn. Yugo partisans active again and gain one hex trying to break out of the eternal encirclement (being player 2 is no fun). Spanish partisans still hold Valladolid. Home Fleet sails to see what's in Narvik. Whyever not? It's defended. So is Murmansk, but I thought a rested infantry corps might push away a single engineer unit even from the sea. It didn't. To preserve appearances, I also pushed over the front line river in mainland Finland with two corps, but was checked instantly. I am just too weak in the north; still, I thought I might keep him on his toes and have him look over his shoulder!
View attachment 35056

 

[Mark Stevens]

Re: Allied Turn 147 / 19th April 1942

I can't really comment on whether the 3.4 upgrade shifted things too strongly in favour of the defence, but do remember it's only early 1942, and you have been very unlucky with US entry: just about every 75% chance of an increase in the DoW level must have come down on the 25% failure rate. There will be an automatic entry very soon. At this point historically the Germans were on the road to Stalingrad. And, as for trench warfare, I think that's about right for the Eastern Front: historians and wargamers alike naturally tend to concentrate on the brief, interesting periods of blitzkrieg (by either side) and forget that, for most of the time on most of the front, it was lines of men, backed by artillery, facing each other in prepared defences. That 32 - 20 is an evil beast, but it won't look anything like that after a few weeks in combat and, while I'm not one of those who idolise the Waffen SS, one of their fully equipped and supplied panzer corps was about the strongest force, man-for-man and tank-for-tank, on the ground. Keep your spirits up - you'll thank me when the Russian XXI Guards Tank Corps rolls into Berlin. : )

 

[AdrianE]

Re: Allied Turn 147 / 19th April 1942

That 32 - 20 is an evil beast, but it won't look anything like that after a few weeks in combat and, while I'm not one of those who idolise the Waffen SS, one of their fully equipped and supplied panzer corps was about the strongest force, man-for-man and tank-for-tank, on the ground.

Not really. US 2nd and 3rd armoured divisions each had more tanks and more vehicles than any SS panzer corps. These US divisions each had two tank regiments of three battalions each. Compare that with an SS panzer division that had one regiment with two battalions and maybe a STuG battalion as well. One of these US divisions had 6 tank battalions compared with the 4 available to an SS panzer corps.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: Allied Turn 147 / 19th April 1942

(...) and you have been very unlucky with US entry: just about every 75% chance of an increase in the DoW level must have come down on the 25% failure rate.

That's what I was thinking when I was reading the list in the briefing a few days ago ... about everything on that list had happened, but no Americans! :angry:

 

[Secadegas]

Re: Allied Turn 147 / 19th April 1942

Not really. US 2nd and 3rd armoured divisions each had more tanks and more vehicles than any SS panzer corps. These US divisions each had two tank regiments of three battalions each. Compare that with an SS panzer division that had one regiment with two battalions and maybe a STuG battalion as well. One of these US divisions had 6 tank battalions compared with the 4 available to an SS panzer corps.

Not really !???

I wounder why US Army didn't create more units with such "powerfull" organisation...? Why US Army choose a "lighter" version for all other Armd. divisions?
Having 4 or 5 Tigers (Pz VI) made a lot of difference at tactical (even basic operational) level.
If i have to combat (thank Good i don't...) i would prefer having a hand full of Panthers (Pz V) operated by those SStupid guys than a full battalion of about 48 x M5's manned by people trained to engaged the enemy only under complete (absolute) Air / Arty superiority...