EA Heldenkaiser (Allies) vs. Telumar (Axis)

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: Allied Turn 140 / 1st March 1942

Dug-in troops in a dense-urban mountain being attacked across a narrow front over a SuperRiver are hard to defeat. Especially since they have no where to retreat to. Are you sure you want to pull them back?

No, I am not sure. It occurred to me to turn this into a blutmühle for him. Only so far my experience with defending a position to the last against the Supergermans has always been negative. Besides, these are not three poor Soviet divisions out of I don't even know how many hundred corps, but three rather good British divisions out of, what, two dozen? I am not sure I can spare them.

Of course, I may not get the Straits open and then the question will be entirely academic because they will have to fight it out regardless of what I want. I even think that's likely.

 

[medck]

Re: Allied Turn 140 / 1st March 1942

No, I am not sure. It occurred to me to turn this into a blutmühle for him. Only so far my experience with defending a position to the last against the Supergermans has always been negative. Besides, these are not three poor Soviet divisions out of I don't even know how many hundred corps, but three rather good British divisions out of, what, two dozen? I am not sure I can spare them.

Of course, I may not get the Straits open and then the question will be entirely academic because they will have to fight it out regardless of what I want. I even think that's likely.

I understand your concern about the UK/Commonwealth divisions. They're rare commodities. I guess it depends on what the reconstitution rules are for those units. If they're going to reconstitute in some urban/supply hex in the UK 6-8 turns after they are destroyed it would make sense to dig in and make him bleed for Gibraltar. If they never reconstitute then by all means get them out of there!

Good luck getting the Straits open, that will at least give you the option. On a side note, you really look to be doing well with the Russians; you're into 1942 and he is a ways from Moscow and Leningrad. You also have that British army outside of Basra that with American support could threaten his flank. Speaking of which -- that might be a nice destination for the former Gibraltar garrison.

 

[toawguy]

Re: Allied Turn 140 / 1st March 1942

No, I am not sure. It occurred to me to turn this into a blutmühle for him. Only so far my experience with defending a position to the last against the Supergermans has always been negative. Besides, these are not three poor Soviet divisions out of I don't even know how many hundred corps, but three rather good British divisions out of, what, two dozen? I am not sure I can spare them.

Of course, I may not get the Straits open and then the question will be entirely academic because they will have to fight it out regardless of what I want. I even think that's likely.

Which specific units are in Gibraltar?

 

[Mark Stevens]

Re: Allied Turn 140 / 1st March 1942

Good point. To simulate the relatively low numbers of trained British troops compared to those of the major Continental countries at the outbreak of war, several of the starting units never reconstitute: neither the BEF, the two Territorial Corps, nor the Gibraltar and Malta garrisons. Worth a check.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: Allied Turn 140 / 1st March 1942

Good point. To simulate the relatively low numbers of trained British troops compared to those of the major Continental countries at the outbreak of war, several of the starting units never reconstitute: neither the BEF, the two Territorial Corps, nor the Gibraltar and Malta garrisons. Worth a check.

50 Inf Div; one-half IX Cps (Terr); Gibraltar Defence Force; RM Bde

BTW is Malta Garrison something different from Malta Bde? The latter has reconstituted twice already.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Allied Turn 141 / 8th March 1942

- Strong German mech forces reach the Terek and cut off my troops south of the river completely. Unsure as usual whether I should attempt to break out or dig in, this time I choose the former; of course, the attack fails and the troops in the pocket are now in reorg instead of entrenched.
- Not much left of Vichy or Portugal. Lisbon falls and is not retaken although the valiant Portuguese try. Gibraltar holds. The Home Fleet is badly damaged by air attack and returns to Scapa. Our fleet is nearly completely wrecked by now. Only the carrier groups are still in good shape, minus the planes, unfortunately.
- Not much else. Bridge blowing, partisans in Spain and Yugoslavia, the usual stuff.

 

[medck]

Re: Allied Turn 140 / 1st March 1942

50 Inf Div; one-half IX Cps (Terr); Gibraltar Defence Force; RM Bde

I suppose when the end looks imminent you'll want to pull out the IX Cps and the GDF. Anything in the UK that reconstitutes that you could replace them with?

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: Allied Turn 140 / 1st March 1942

I suppose when the end looks imminent you'll want to pull out the IX Cps and the GDF. Anything in the UK that reconstitutes that you could replace them with?

Well, it's a moot point right now. There is not a single capital ship left in the entire RN. The Straits remain closed.

 

[Cfant]

I only played EA once and not for long (my opponent betrayed). But even then I found it nearly impossible to spare my fleets (I played the allies) from German air-attacks. The motto seems to be "use it and loose it". :laugh: So maybe the best is NOT to use your fleet and keep it like some thread to the enemy, as the Germans did in WW I.
I'd really like to know how better and more experienced players than me use their fleet in EA. Germany can mass her bombers, if the RN is spotted, at least if it's away from the British Isles. The RN is doomed, I say, DOOMED! :nuts:

 

[Heldenkaiser]

The RN is doomed, I say, DOOMED! :nuts:

Well. Remembering what happened to Force Z historically I'd say it's OK to lose most capital ships in a fleet that goes near a defended coast without heavy air cover. Which is my situation off the Iberian Peninsula. When Stefan attacked my fleets off the British coast earlier in the game their losses where not nearly as bad. I also notice that carrier groups seem to have a slightly better chance to defend themselves against air attack, which would also make sense. But this observation is based on a very small number of cases.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Re: Allied Turn 140 / 1st March 1942

Also, I seem to remember I still have a handful of capital ship replacements. If the game is halfway historically accurate in this respect, the Germans should not be quite as able to replace THEIR lost capital ships quickly. They already lost a goodly number of them especially in the earlier air bombings of the Italian fleet in the Black Sea.

Generally, this WAS an era when capital ships were usually lost to air attack before all other causes; from Pearl Harbour to Midway to Okinawa in the Pacific and including practically all German capital ships throughout the war with I believe the sole exception of Admiral Graf Spee which was scuttled off Montevideo (and she was a capital ship only by definition).

Update: I went and looked this up to be sure. The battleship Scharnhorst (the British called her a battlecruiser) was in fact sunk during a surface action off the North Cape; no air units involved. That leaves still five out of seven German capital ships in the war either directly sunk by air attack or so severely damaged that they were immobilized or broken up afterwards.

Second update: If we include German cruisers in the count (nine in all), that adds two that were torpedoed (one by a land battery, one by a submarine), three that survived the war, and another four ships to be sunk or fatally damaged by Allied air action. The total for sixteen German capital ships and cruisers in the war would therefore come to nine that were taken out by air attacks, one by surface action, two by torpedoes, one that was scuttled, and three that survived. So air attack still the most important factor by a wide margin.

 

[medck]

what about his fleet -- do you have any air units that can be used against them or is that too risky?

 

[Heldenkaiser]

what about his fleet -- do you have any air units that can be used against them or is that too risky?

I tried a couple of turns ago. But without fighter cover ... it's pointless slaughter of good bomber crews.

 

[AdrianE]

Well. Remembering what happened to Force Z historically I'd say it's OK to lose most capital ships in a fleet that goes near a defended coast without heavy air cover.

To Japanese land based torpedo bombers. You are not fighting the Japanese. The LW was notoriously incompetent at air naval engagements. Their most dramatic success was when they sank two of their own destroyers who were not shooting back. One small force of German bombers did extensively train for a year and did put in a good performance at Crete in 1941 but only after the British ships had run out of AAA ammunition.

Early war LW units lacked armour piercing bombs. They were incapable of putting holes in the RN's cruisers let alone battleships. The LW did have a small number of torpedo bombers (He111 variant floatplanes) but their air dropped torpedos were effectively useless.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Allied Turn 142 / 15th March 1942

A nearly eventless turn. Axis are reducing the Terek kessel, another breakout attempt fails (I am giving it up now); and Portugal surrenders. I am bombing bridges in France and Spain. Gibraltar still holds. I got an insane number of combat rounds btw.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

The LW was notoriously incompetent at air naval engagements.

Because Göring was not really interested in the sea but still claimed everything that flies, so no real naval air power. Still, one should think that if a large fleet had been lingering off their shore for weeks without air cover even they should have managed to do something about it. Also, this is 1942, and if the Germans had made it a priority in 1939 to develop a naval air force ... afterall, we're dealing with what-if's here. I still maintain that in the 1940s it should be rightly suicidal for surface fleets to expose themselves to land-based air power, even if the German Luftwaffe didn't specialize in sinking ships. Maybe their bombers are a tad strong in the game, I don't know. But to me this doesn't feel wrong, at least not utterly so.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Allied Turn 143 / 22nd March 1942

"Spring thaw brings flood and mud." - Stefan uses this respite to move flak units to his favorite bridges and some armoured units west from the southern end of the mainland front--where to? -- I am repairing bridges, or rather trying to, because all attempts fail. Vichy is still there (we're holding Lyon). So are the Spanish republicans who have last turn taken Valladolid btw. Gibraltar too is holding. A RAF fighter group has appeared in Damascus, of all places (reconstituted, perhaps?), but can't move to a more useful location because the city is surrounded by the bad guys. Rather odd. I thought aeroplanes can fly.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Allied Turn 144 / 29th March 1942

Stefan is still moving troops all over the board but I can't make sense of it. Some fighter groups moving to the mainland front, yet other units moving away from it, towards the Reich. The Spanish forces returning from Portugal. Some Croats sailing the Med. The only thing that's obvious is that Stefan is containing the Terek pocket with six minor divisions while moving the heavy stuff closer to Grozny, with an intent to cross the river upwards of the marshy estuary. I suppose that means I had better reinforce that sector as well. That's all of it. Some bridge repairing.
View attachment 34986

 

[Heldenkaiser]

The big picture, again

The ceasefire made me think about the general situation. What's Stefan at, I wonder? There has been very little activity on most fronts now for a very long time. Even the Kuban has become a quiet backwater. The only attacks more recent than that were on the Terek and the extreme southern end of the mainland front. The only objective down there, except the Maikop oil fields, is Stalingrad. But he's not trying very hard to get there. Reaching Moscow or Leningrad he seems to have all but given up. The recent moves in Western Europe were, as has been rightly pointed out, mainly defensive. He is not preparing for an invasion of the UK. So what's this all about? Is he already preparing to sit out the rest in the hope that I'll not make it into Berlin in time?

This has me also wonder about the wisdom of our agreement on what constitutes a victory. The Axis wins if they either take out both the USSR and the UK or if they survive the war with a large chunk of Germany unoccupied. It struck me that this makes it rather harder to win for the Allies than for the Axis. I have to win twice--first defensively in defending my key countries, and then offensively in conquering the Reich. Stefan only has to win once--either in taking my key countries or in defending the Reich. He doesn't have to do both.

And what about the USA? Are they never going to come in? There were a lot of events already that should have pushed them further towards entering the war, but maybe I was singularly unlucky. Seeing how many goodies depend on the US entry, some coming like a year (!) later, having to wait for the Americans until late 1942 seems a rather bleak prospect. And with Stefan no longer advancing, there is not a lot that can happen to convince them to come earlier.

View attachment 34987

 

[ogar]

Re: The big picture, again

I think that the Americans arrive slowly, and there are delays in events, and the game is set for you to anxiously wait for that 1944 build-up. My recollection of what's been posted, that is. Mark or others with the real experience will correct me.

After looking at that map, and based on my getting hammered by Stefan in other scenarios, I do not think he is just going to sit quietly. He is capable of waiting and preparing carefully for offensives, but as you know, he can be quite aggressive.
It looks to me like his fallback strategy is to cut the USSR off from the restof the world - I'll guess this limits USSR recovery, production, supplies, etc. Taking Stalingrad would seal that deal, as he has the far north already.
And just because I said he can be very aggressive does not mean he is also not planning to dig in , dig in, and force a bloody head-on campaign to gain ground in western Europe. He'll just limit offensives to specific targets, and cancel them if they are not productive; I'd bet he has most of what he planned for, already.
In your shoes, I'd worry about those sea-lanes along the south edge - yes, he owns most of the Near East and North Africa, but even if you cannot attack or gain anything from those hexes/areas, I would worry about effects on resources and supplies.
I also think he's annoyed by your discovering Air Power -- hence the re-grouping of air forces. He plans to make you pay for all your earlier fun. I think you have to continue to bomb and bomb heavily, but I suspect a much stronger air defence awaits you.

Again, jmnho, but I think Stefan has to win twice, as well -- first he had to take all that territory and keep his critical losses low and get it done fast enough to have time to build his fortress. Second, he has to retain that fortress.

Again, looking at that map, 2 questions I have are A) can Turkey be flipped out of the war (in 1943-44) ? B) if you can retain the Kuban, and mask the Crimea, do the Soviets have the chance to launch amphibious assaults across the Black Sea at the Danube (in 1944, again) ?

I am not sure, but I do not think there's a big gain with the historical Med strategy as first you have to fight your way in, and then fight enough, to open that 3rd spoiler front...

Damn, now you're making want to go study that document so I can stop talking outa my *&^ on these topics.
Again, thanks for the AAR -- hope some of this helps you in making decisions.