EA Air Question

[Heldenkaiser]

I think I do understand the effect declarations of war have in EA ... they allow to bring a minor country from neutral (garrison) to belligerent (active) status so that it can fight when attacked.

However, the UK, Soviet Union and Germany are belligerents from the start, i.e. their units are active. Isn't that so?

Of course without a declaration of war by TO these countries will not attack each other, if house rules are followed. But what if, for example, I set Soviet long range air units on interdiction (for a purpose other than war with Germany), will they not interdict moving units inside Germany even though the two countries are not yet at war? Or won't they? Or does it not matter, because the three major belligerents are at war anyway, in game terms?

Could someone please help me understand the intention of the game design here, and what I ought to do?

 

[B-snafu]

............However, the UK, Soviet Union and Germany are belligerents from the start, i.e. their units are active. Isn't that so? ..........................

Active doesent exactly mean beligerent, as you said later in your post it takes the TO option to be able to attack each other. But, You will notice that in some inactive countries such as Italy in the beginning or even France--that some of your countries air counters will not be orange or yellow barred. so even if that country is still neutral--I believe if you were to set one of those "free" counters on air sup, interdiction, or combat support they will get involved in air combat or interdiction for whatever side their already designated as--(ie. Italy is consered an axis country even while it is barred from entry by TO). What I usually do in those cases is just to check & make sure all 'Neutral' countries that have 'free' air counteres are sent to mobile so as thay can't factor in to your air sup or interdiction % until proper entry.


As far as the Russians in your example--If say your at war with Finland--if some accidental interdiction occurs in Germany it just is one of those things that might happen from time to time due to the engine limitations. But usually due to the distance & ranges in EA it should not be a factor & his early air superiority should negate any effect. You will notice later that when the Germans do invade Russia he will have to keep his air assets moving up with the front line to be able to get them involved effectively---(ie--hint-hint--good a good strategy my opponents have done to me during barb shock is to pull back as many as the russian air units as possible behind moscow where the germans can't reach them until the shock is gone:devious

On the other hand--say when germany invades poland--it would be kind of bad form to place russian air units active along the far bessorussia border while they are still technically neutral & possibly get them involved in the fringe air-combat.


As far as the designer intentions--I'm sure Mark, Veers, or someone better in the know will be along to answer--but I guess these small factors to have to consider are due to the engine limitations to be able to make a game like EA work in TOAW.


Edit: As always consult with manual or more knowledgable player before heeding any of the advice here in given

 

[Mark Stevens]

As far as the Russians in your example--If say your at war with Finland--if some accidental interdiction occurs in Germany it just is one of those things that might happen from time to time due to the engine limitations. But usually due to the distance & ranges in EA it should not be a factor & his early air superiority should negate any effect

That's pretty well it, I'm afraid. Fully neutral countries' air forces should always be set to rest, even if they are 'active' - when the game was designed, there were limitations on the Events to activate every formation, so we concentrated on making the neutral land units fixed in position.

As per the above, Red Air Force units supporting the Finnish War by interdiction may, if their range permits, strike German units moving on the other side of the exclusion zone, which is a limitation of the game engine. But, provided there's a decent Luftwaffe fighter in range, the bombers would suffer badly. It emphatically isn't OK to move Red fighters to the Polish internal border to provide CAP to defend such interdiction attacks.

It's a big picture scenario, Lord knows, and requires a certain willing suspension of belief.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Thank you again, gentlemen.

So I see ... now of course, there are Soviet bombers with quite a range (I recall having seen 69). It appears I better should not have them on interdiction then while I'm fighting only Finland.

 

[Telumar]

Thank you again, gentlemen.

So I see ... now of course, there are Soviet bombers with quite a range (I recall having seen 69). It appears I better should not have them on interdiction then while I'm fighting only Finland.

Better not - one of my Panzer Korps got hit when i broke through the polish lines.. have you experienced interdiction strikes? I have some of my units on interdiction :OHNO:

 

[Heldenkaiser]

I have put them all back on CS or Rest, Stefan. I don't think interdiction will do much in Finland anyway. (Hit their ample mechanized and armoured reserves while they're moving up from the deep industralized hinterland? :laugh

 

[Telumar]

I have put them all back on CS or Rest, Stefan. I don't think interdiction will do much in Finland anyway.

I believe you, my Panzer Corps closing in on Warzaw has been hit again, must be something different..

(Hit their ample mechanized and armoured reserves while they're moving up from the deep industralized hinterland? :laugh

:laugh: Not to forget the Thule-based Nazi UFOs and my undead SS Panzerkorps.. :clown:

 

[Heldenkaiser]

I believe you, my Panzer Corps closing in on Warzaw has been hit again, must be something different..

I wouldn't know what else it could be ... I might have forgotten some air army, although I thought I had only those on interdiction that were more or less adjacent to the Finnish borders.

Or maybe it's a British bomber unit? I'll check, promise.

 

[Mark Stevens]

French?

(That's a suggestion about the air interdiction, not an offer by the way)

 

[Telumar]

Could be, Mark, but now that Germany is at war with France and Britain, i would see no problem with that.

Maybe do away with interdicition at all in EA..?

 

[Heldenkaiser]

I haven't looked at the turn yet, but I am fairly certain that, with only the Soviet Union being at war, I put only Soviet planes on interdiction. Not British ones I think. No French ones in any case, since the Frogs were still in garrison last turn.

 

[Veers]

Could be, Mark, but now that Germany is at war with France and Britain, i would see no problem with that.

Maybe do away with interdicition at all in EA..?

I don't think we need to get rid of interdiction all together, but a House Rule limiting the Soviet Union to not have their a/c on interdiction until at war with Germany might be prudent.

 

[Heldenkaiser]

Stefan: I have checked, I had not a single air unit on interdiction. Whatever happened to you last turn must have been an earthquake, or a railroad accident, Communist partisans, rabid stamp collectors or something in that line ... :vsign:

 

[Telumar]

Stefan: I have checked, I had not a single air unit on interdiction. Whatever happened to you last turn must have been an earthquake, or a railroad accident, Communist partisans, rabid stamp collectors or something in that line ... :vsign:

One thing noone might have thought of is...maybe it was.... the polish air force!? :surprise:

Whatever, doesn't matter in the long run..

I don't think we need to get rid of interdiction all together, but a House Rule limiting the Soviet Union to not have their a/c on interdiction until at war with Germany might be prudent.

Might be okay. As i understand it by now, the french AF is on garrison anyway, don't know about the Brits.