Ea 2012

Veers

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2012

Event 510 activated by event 82, activates event 1.
Event 1 is a cease fire event.
--
Something is wrong with Poland.
Going for EC, Allied polish forces remain on map.
--
Allies Yugo Partisans
YU irregulars, event 94, enters 87,86.
Location is major river, Unit will never deploy as missing ferry equipment.
Thanks again Lou.

Sorry guys, two events involved here. 510 and 511. There is only supposed to be one and neither is supposed to activate event 1.
I figure I must have accidentally right clicked in the event editor, adding a duplicate of the event before it was fully defined, so instead of having two events that would do the same thing and not cause an issue, one of them activates event 1, which causes a cease fire.
Corrected version is now attached in first post.

Sorry again, guys!
 

Secadegas

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I'm currently testing 2 versions of the improved EA 2012 with 3 different opponents. These tests are still at an early stage of the game (between T45 and T70).
So its still too early to make any final considerations on how AD 8 is adding on a more sound combat resolution and its direct effect on forces replacements situation.
Forces replacements situation is a key issue in this scenario and the previous versions had reached a very balanced and trully realistic level which is essential not to spoil.


What i'd like to comment at this moment are some of the "strategic" changes which can already be verified and some of which, i think, deserve some discussion:


Reorganize the Canadian Army.
I understand this "special care" with Canadian army. However the level of abstraction on all EA OOB's don't justify such a fine tunning of any particular army. I'm sure the early entry of 1 Canadian division and its presence in Britain during Sealion was already prefectly represented by the full equiped UK's OOB 2 strong corps in which the Canadians would always be included.

But much more important are the half strength Canadians corps later appearence. To be put to full strength they will absorb badly needed rifle squads (RS) replacements from other Allied forces. Allied RS are a limited equipment - which realistically represent British and other Alllies manpower shortages (US forces use HRAT-S) - and this not compensated new demand for such equipment will lead to an obvious unbalance of Allied RS critical replacement situation.


Replace Sea Supply Roads with Sps, modify current SP level of some current SPs.
As you said "the sea supply roads system did a pretty good job". They aren't pretty but at this scale scenario they represented very sound logistical requests TOAW doesn't fully simulate.
Hasty changes of sea supply roads by supply points (SP) without further considerations can bring some deep distortions on logistical reality.
Some examples of these logistical distortions:
- In this version Allies can perform amphibious attacks (and be supplied) on Sicily even without holding Malta or Tunes. In reality where would the Allies take the supply from on such poor strategical conditions?
- Could Allies forces in Sardinia be supplied without Allies holding Tunis? Where from? Not from Gibraltar for sure. In this version they can.

Some carefull thoughts are requered on these and other linked situations. I think it's possible to replace sea supply roads by SP's but these must not be "automatic" and should only be depending on events.
Variable level of SP's doesn't solve, in this case, the main question by any means.


Invasion SPs: This needs more thought, but for now:
Allied invasion SPs
Northern France:
Added 33% SP to La Rochelle.
Added 50% Sps to St. Nazaire, Lorient, Brest, Cherbourg, Le Harve, and Dieppe.
I agree on more Northern France SP's available to Overlord. And adding Brest, Cherbourg, Le Harve, and Dieppe to the existing ones is more than enough.

The new SP's at St. Nazaire, Lorient and La Rochelle make absolutely no sense. Again we have to compensate some TOAW logistical and strategical shortcomings (it wasn't bild for this scale scenarios).
Any Allied planner suggesting an invasion area out of full air cover and forcing the invasion armada to sail on open ocean for almost an extra day would be sacked on the spot...
Not to mention the non sense of heading a huge fleet against German's biggest U-Boat bases. And if we remember Allied incredible investement on surprise effect, i don't think is wise to believe they would ruin it while taking the option for those invasion beaches.
Again variable level of SP's doesn't make things any better.


Italy:
50% SPs at Genoa, Livorno, Anzio, Salerno, Pescara
100% SPs at Naples, Taranto.
For the same reasons as above a SP at Pescara (or any other on the Adriatic sea) is clearly exagerated. Please don't forget amphibious resources were scarce and these kind of operations were much more complicated than pushing "embark unit" button...


Greece:
50% SPs at Durazzo, Thessalonika, Kalami, and Navplion.
100% SP at Athens.
SP's at Thessalonika, Kalami, and Navplion (at any supply level) would in reality only be logisticaly possible if Crete is under Allied control. Not otherwise.
Allied Durazzo SP, as any other Allied SP in Adriatic sea, is out of proportion.


Some additonal notes:

Madagascar 21,49/50
Please note Vichy units are fixed on hex 26,147 and the SP is placed on hex 29,144 resulting on unsupplied Axis units. Axis SP must be moved to 26,147.


East Africa
The Allies now have 75% SPs at Mombassa, Berbera, Djibouti, and Port Sudan.
Allied unit in Aden was forgotten in supply terms.


Deploy 15th Army Group in ‘42.
I can't find any new units or trace of this deployment but probably i'm missing something...


This isn't an issue from this version, it was always there but it's a good oportunity to repair it:
V-2 Rockets unit (Axis Wunderwaffen OOB) is set to appear on hex 92,57. It will never do so because it's a super river hex. It must be changed to hex 93,57 (Stettin).



As to the other (many) changes i understand and support them and i think they will result in a better EA and that's what we all want...
 
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Veers

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Secadagas: What would I do without you? :)
You make many excellent points. I've therefore started work on 2012A. :D

Regarding the Canadians: Back off my homies! :p
I'll get back to you on this one. As it was minor compared to your other points, I worked on them, first.

Regarding Supply: Excellent Points. I have opened a new thread strictly regarding supply in EA, as I remembered while reading your points that there was a revolutionary bug quashing in 3.5 (or some other release in my absence). Previously events could not remove SPs in enemy territory. For example, Force A has an SP on hex 1,1. Force B occupies 1,1. Event fires to remove Force A's SP from 1,1; however, while the event fires, the SP is NOT removed. This is no longer the case and fixes the problem that was effing me up with regards to the sea supply roads in the eastern Med. With this resolved...well, see the other thread, I want to keep discussion of supply separate from other discussion, and therefore more manageable.

Regarding Supply:
Aden and Madagascar have been fixed.

Regarding V-2s:
Fixed, and good catch.
 

Veers

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2012


Event 510 activated by event 82, activates event 1.
Event 1 is a cease fire event.
--
Something is wrong with Poland.
Going for EC, Allied polish forces remain on map.
--
Allies Yugo Partisans
YU irregulars, event 94, enters 87,86.
Location is major river, Unit will never deploy as missing ferry equipment.
So, for some reason, I only comprehended the first of your, I now realize, three points.

The first point, as already stated, I created and have fixed.
The third point, present in previous versions, I have also fixed.

Do you have any specifics about what the issue with the Allied Polish formations is when going Eastern Crusade? I didn't change anything in the events that affect that, as far as I know, and I didn't write the event myself, either, so it would take me a fare amount of work to find an issue. Therefore, if you have specifics can I get 'em off you so I'll know exactly what needs to be looked at?

Again, thanks for the extra set of eyes and always fantastic input, Lou.
 

Veers

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Anyone have any progress reports to share of playtesting EA with the new balance changes and such?
 

Ruppich

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The Graf zeppelin is carrying japanese airplanes, is this intended?
JU87 -C and eventually -T were already constructed for carrier usage.

=============================
I'm in my turn 3 and im already at war with belgium and netherland, how could that happen?
Is that cause i attacked poland without waiting for the TO?
Spain is getting bombed by brits too and the russian by the finns.

EDIT:
Restarted the game and just pressed and of turn as axis.
Fins and estonian forces bombarding russins, german bombarding denmark(!) and bruessel.

Is this scenario not playable in hot seat modus? i tried this in pbem too, same problems.
HUN and RUM bombers are in action too.
alls those Countries shouldn't be involved in the war for years....
 
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Secadegas

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The Graf zeppelin is carrying japanese airplanes, is this intended?
JU87 -C and eventually -T were already constructed for carrier usage.

=============================
I'm in my turn 3 and im already at war with belgium and netherland, how could that happen?
Is that cause i attacked poland without waiting for the TO?
Spain is getting bombed by brits too and the russian by the finns.

EDIT:
Restarted the game and just pressed and of turn as axis.
Fins and estonian forces bombarding russins, german bombarding denmark(!) and bruessel.

Is this scenario not playable in hot seat modus? i tried this in pbem too, same problems.
HUN and RUM bombers are in action too.
alls those Countries shouldn't be involved in the war for years....
Stay calm and breathe deeply...

You just made contact to the most brilliant scenario ever made for TOAW. Complex, no doubt. Not designed to PO play.
However it's worth a try...
 

Ruppich

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Stay calm and breathe deeply...
You just made contact to the most brilliant scenario ever made for TOAW. Complex, no doubt. Not designed to PO play.
However it's worth a try...
Woooah this post was informative and helpful, thank u very much ^^.
Again:
Can i TEST the scenario in HOT-SEAT-MODUS ? yes/no?
Why is everyone bombing on everyone from turn one?? My fault?? Wrong settings??
HELP!!
 

Secadegas

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I'll try to be more helpful this time...

Yes, you can play / test in Hot seated. Not problems.

However you also have to help yourself by reading the briefing. There are a lot of essential information very needed for the smooth playing of the scenario.

Then be sure you're really choosing the Hot seated mode and not any of the Human vs PO modes.

If you want i can PBEM a test game for 10/15 turns just to introduce you on this "jewel".
 

Mantis

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Greets all!

Hope everyone is keeping their powder dry? :)

Good to see many of the old guard still plugging away at EA. (EA2012? Have I really been away so long?)

How has everyone been keeping - still playing through the odd PBEM game? From trolling through the forum it seems that certain changes to the game / scenario have played hell with the balance again. That always was the elusive goal... And every time we'd think we see the finish line in sight, a few more changes would be implemented that would see the line moved back another 100 miles....

Ahhh, I love this scenario! Why else would people keep playing it for 20 years? :D
 

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Bloody Hell!

First Veers and now Mantis. Once grabbed by TOAW it will never let go. Nice to see you here again. Hope you are keeping well

Best wishes,
Steve
 

Ruppich

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Only minor detail but 9 german inf corps have 85mm atgs.
I dondt know what guns that should be,
but the most corps are right "modelled" with 50mm, 75mm and 88mm.
Can we get rid of the 85mm atgs?
In the berlin industry "disbandables" too and instead 75's and/or 88's?
 

Foggy

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It's hard to say what 3.4 has done to this - everyone seems to be waiting for 3.5 :( DM has not updated his scens to even 3.4 - major drawback to the game as far as I'm concerned!
 

Telumar

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3.5, what's so screwed about 3.4?
Nothing in particular. I like 3.4. It's just that the new combined terrain/deployment defender bonus is said to unbalance things. Actually it's the RFC on ignore losses bug that screws land combat, there's a thread at the Matrixforum dealing with this. And, concerning EA the "Donut of Death" has been fixed, which means the Soviet Air Force is much stronger (i suppose EA used the bug as a feature).

And good to see you around, again! :toast:
 

Telumar

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@Veers (if you're still around):

You definitely should look at the Maikop/Grozny/Baku disband units! Or do them away completely and replace them with a timed supply increase. The problem with these units is the uncontemporary equipment they add to the pool if captured early. Not to mention the bonus units, full of late war tanks, no matter the date of capture of the triggering locations. I.e. in my current game with Heldenkaiser the Axis field - at turn 163 (late summer 1942):

~ 2900 Panther tanks
~ 1670 Tiger I
~ 500 Tiger II
22 Maus
~ 125 StuG IV
75 Nashorn
~ 270 Jagdpanther
~ 270 Jagdtiger
~ 1000 JagdPz Hetzer
and last but not least:
564 T-34/85 ! I know, supposed to represent captured tanks, but hey...
 
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