E1.8 Piat

[Larry]

A PIAT does not create a gunflash. If a PIAT fires and no gunflash is created, does the unit maintain concealment at night even if he is in the NVR of the enemy?

Does it make any difference if he is in an illuminated location?

Thanks for the look at a game in hindsight!

 

[SamB]

Is the statement "A PIAT makes no gunflash" taken from the rules, or is that just you speaking because you know that a PIAT uses a spring to propel the AT round?

If you can find an exception in the rules for a PIAT not causing a gunflash, then the unit can keep concealment.

If you are just presenting a "reality argument" about the PIAT then you should write to Perry and see if he agrees with you. :surprise:

 

[Larry]

Ouch Sam. Sorry for not citing all the rules. Here goes:

E1.88 PIAT: A fIred PIAT does not create a Gunflash.

So yes, it is taken from the rules and not something I made up or some weird reality argument.

The same question would apply to a MOL:

1.84 MOL/FT: A MOL/FT attack creates a Gunflash in the Location actually attacked by the weapon. A FT also creates a Gunflash in its own Location.

If you attack at night with a MOL and thus do not get a gunflash, do you lose concealment?

 

[Beseler]

this is an interesting question.

The Piat would be marked with a fire counter, but are the players supposed to remember that that fire counter is not a gunflash?

This is a concealment loss activity though (shooting), thus, firing within the LOS and NVR of a KEU, gunflash or not, strips the piat firer of concealment.

 

[Doughboy]

this is an interesting question.

The Piat would be marked with a fire counter, but are the players supposed to remember that that fire counter is not a gunflash?

This is a concealment loss activity though (shooting), thus, firing within the LOS and NVR of a KEU, gunflash or not, strips the piat firer of concealment.

From the technical standpoint I have to agree that this is does strips concealment, but I wonder why there was a specific exception that states that it does not cause a flash other than for concealment loss?

Steiner, Steiner, Steiner! :halo:

 

[Larry]

12.121 CONCEALMENT LOSS/GAIN TABLE: The specific situations that allow "?" gain (or cause "?" loss) are given in the Concealment Table [EXC: Night (E1.3)].

And therein lies the problem. What is the effect of no gunflash? Possibilities:

1) units outside NVR cannot fire at the location;
2) the firing unit does not lose concealment if all enemy units are out of NVR;
3) the firing unit does not lose concealment even if illuminated and/or in NVR.

Sam's response states that a unit unmarked with gunflash does not lose concealment. I could find nothing in the old antiquated Q&A that helps answer the question. #1 clearly applies and does #2. The real question #3. Since E1.3 represents the only 3 exceptions, I think that #3 is wrong, the firing of a PIAT while already in NVR or in an illuminated location is concealment loss.

Confusion ... waxing or waning ... can't decide.

 

[Beseler]

barring the exceptions, concealment is lost at night the same as in day. That is, if you fire while in the LOS of a KEU, you lose.

so, 1 and 2 are right, 3 is not.