Dummy stack (A12.11)

Joined
Jul 8, 2004
Messages
277
Reaction score
128
Location
Saint-Brieuc
Country
llFrance
According to the Perry Sez V29, a Dummy stack composed of 3 “?” can be split into two Dummy stacks composed of 2 “?” each.
So in the same manner, a Dummy stack composed of 4 “?” can be split into three Dummy stacks composed of 2 “?” each. And a Dummy stack composed of 5 “?” can be split into four Dummy stacks composed of 2 “?” each. And so on, right ?
 

ibncalb

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
894
Reaction score
629
Location
La Turballe
Country
llFrance
Yes, and if you recombine all of the new stacks you finish with the same number of dummies that you started with. Its very useful as your dummies maybe limited in where they can set up, but then can move more freely after set up.
 

EagleIV

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
1,641
Reaction score
843
Location
California
Country
llUnited States
One way to think of it is to replace (at least mentally) each dummy (i.e. each "?" counter other than the top one in the stack which servers to conceal the rest of the stack) with a leader (maybe use 6+1 Hitlers) and now split up the stack however you like, then put back the dummies where you have your Hitlers. This mental exercise will also work when you have a concealed stack of both real units and dummies.
 

johnl

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
697
Reaction score
472
Location
SoCal/Oregon
Country
llUnited States
I think that at set up, Adolph can't be by himself on the bottom of a stack, otherwise, I really like this idea. I always seem to have problems remembering how to use stacked dummies.

A12.11
If a scenario allocates a number
of “?” available for setup at the start of the scenario, those “?” can be placed
atop each other to act as Dummies—thus giving the mistaken impression of a
stack of real counters beneath a “?” but a single such counter cannot be placed
beneath unconcealed units.
 

JimWhite

Elder Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
1,923
Reaction score
783
Location
Newark
Country
llUnited States
According to the Perry Sez V29, a Dummy stack composed of 3 “?” can be split into two Dummy stacks composed of 2 “?” each.
So in the same manner, a Dummy stack composed of 4 “?” can be split into three Dummy stacks composed of 2 “?” each. And a Dummy stack composed of 5 “?” can be split into four Dummy stacks composed of 2 “?” each. And so on, right ?
Oh yeah...the Dummy Starburst Gambit (DSG)...been using that one for years... :)
 

EJ1

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
305
Reaction score
133
Location
Boulder, Colorado
Country
llUnited States
Hi all,

If I have three dummy counters properly placed out of LOS of all enemy units, etc., may I deploy one of the dummies (i.e., the non-deploying dummy represents a leader)? If so, do I need to roll for deployment? The morale level on the concealment counter is a seven; thus, roll <= the seven to deploy? How about for Finns, and similar, who may deploy automatically?

Cheers,
 

WuWei

Elder Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
1,168
Reaction score
915
Location
Germany
First name
Tobias
Country
llGermany
If I have three dummy counters properly placed out of LOS of all enemy units, etc., may I deploy one of the dummies (i.e., the non-deploying dummy represents a leader)? If so, do I need to roll for deployment? The morale level on the concealment counter is a seven; thus, roll <= the seven to deploy? How about for Finns, and similar, who may deploy automatically?
Only squads can deploy. Dummy counters aren't squads.
 

EJ1

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
305
Reaction score
133
Location
Boulder, Colorado
Country
llUnited States
Only squads can deploy. Dummy counters aren't squads.
Your simple answer helps me see a value in the rule: If one were allowed to deploy a dummy, then by the end of the game, the exponential growth of dummies could be like, well, like a . . .

Cheers,
 

Gordon

Forum Guru
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
2,488
Reaction score
2,940
Country
llUnited States
Your simple answer helps me see a value in the rule: If one were allowed to deploy a dummy, then by the end of the game, the exponential growth of dummies could be like, well, like a . . .
The internet?
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2004
Messages
277
Reaction score
128
Location
Saint-Brieuc
Country
llFrance
Thank you all for your answers. The problem (at least in my mind) is this sentence in A12.11 :
" Dummy stacks can be created only during initial setup and among OB-designated "?" reinforcements during their initial turn of entry. "
It seems to interdict the split of dummy stacks during play, because splitting means creating a new stack, right ?
 

ibncalb

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Messages
894
Reaction score
629
Location
La Turballe
Country
llFrance
Thank you all for your answers. The problem (at least in my mind) is this sentence in A12.11 :
" Dummy stacks can be created only during initial setup and among OB-designated "?" reinforcements during their initial turn of entry. "
It seems to interdict the split of dummy stacks during play, because splitting means creating a new stack, right ?
Possibly, but the QA clearly allow it.
 

ScottRomanowski

Forum Guru
Joined
Jul 31, 2010
Messages
1,616
Reaction score
2,087
Location
Massachusetts
Country
llUnited States
As I understand it, "Dummies" are the ? counters beneath the top ? counter. All the splitting is not creating new Dummies, it is creating new concealment counters on top of Dummies. A stack of four Dummies topped by a concealment counter splits into four stacks, each containing one Dummy topped by a concealment counter. I guess you could call it the Law of Conservation of Dummies. :)
 

EagleIV

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
1,641
Reaction score
843
Location
California
Country
llUnited States
As I understand it, "Dummies" are the ? counters beneath the top ? counter. All the splitting is not creating new Dummies, it is creating new concealment counters on top of Dummies. A stack of four Dummies topped by a concealment counter splits into four stacks, each containing one Dummy topped by a concealment counter. I guess you could call it the Law of Conservation of Dummies. :)
Yes this is correct. If you read the definition of a Dummy in the index it says "a "?" counter representing a fake, unknown unit". This means that the top "?" in a stack is not a Dummy, but just a concealment counter, however any/all "?" under that top "?" are Dummies.

Player need to realize that a "?" can be either a Dummy or a concealment counter, but not both at the same time.
 
Top