Dug in tank

[Juan SantaX]

Should a Dug-in tank deploy HIP as a fortification?
A look to the index tell me it is not a fortification.
D9.54 and D9.52 tells me to place it as a if it were a pillbox
A pillbox may set up HIP A12.33...

By the rules index neither armoured cupula nor dugin tank are fortifications, so I think they cannot setup HIP...

Its that right?

Thx

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Correct. They can't normally (i.e., without SSR) set up using HIP.

 

[Juan SantaX]

Yes. I thought that was the answer. But I found a Q&A regarding CC vs a HIP armoured cupula... It didnt mean anything but...

Thx a lot. Here you get questions solved at light speed!!

 

[jrv]

Per D9.54 a dug-in AFV is treated as an Armored Cupola except as stated otherwise. Per D9.52, "An Armored Cupola is never eligible for concealment." A dug-in tank not only is not HIP, it is not concealed at any time. Certain well-known CGs change this (e.g. RF11.6194(c)).

JR

 

[Juan SantaX]

Thx again, JR!!

I thought only SSR could give HIP. There are a few examples on escenarios and a Q&A, but my problem was with "... placed... as if it were a pillbox..." and A12. 33 that state that "... Fortifications in concealemt terrain may always set up hidden..."

Of course I have to agree with you. I'm still rusty with the rules and make some obvious questions. Thx a lot

 

[jrv]

I thought only SSR could give HIP.

Guns generally set up HIP [A12.34] and OBA Observers with field phones also [C1.23] in addition to fortifications.

There are a few examples on escenarios and a Q&A, but my problem was with "... placed... as if it were a pillbox..." and A12. 33 that state that "... Fortifications in concealemt terrain may always set up hidden..."

D9.52 says, "as if it were a pillbox (B30.1)," i.e. it is only trying to invoke one particular paragraph of pillbox rules and not saying that all pillbox rules apply. Even if it had made a mistake and said "B30" concealment would still be n/a because the D9.52 is also the rule that says later that concealment is n/a, and the later rule wins ["The Numbering System" in the Intro].

JR

 

[Juan SantaX]

Thx a lot!!

 

[jrv]

Also in night scenarios a lot of stuff sets up HIP without SSR. And the Japanese get "free" HIP too.

JR

 

[Juan SantaX]

My english is also rusty : placed ~ set up...

Anyway it's a luck to have people like you an Klas and others like you both around here. You make it a look easy!!

 

[Juan SantaX]

Yes my problem isn't with emplaced guns in concealemt terrain and things like that, its about my sheer ignorance of all detail of lots of rules (before I start with the night rules, I will try to learn bocage and PTO)

 

[jrv]

Yes my problem isn't with emplaced guns in concealemt terrain and things like that, its about my sheer ignorance of all detail of lots of rules

My problem too.

(before I start with the night rules, I will try to learn bocage and PTO)

You can learn these in any order. Night rules are used frequently in campaign games, so depending on your interests and goals, you may want to learn about night first. But it's entirely up to you.

JR

 

[jrv]

My english is also rusty : placed ~ set up...

That isn't a problem with your English. The two terms could refer to the same thing, or might not. There's overlap in their usage. The earlier chapters of the ASLRB, especially the early versions, also had lots of casual usage of English. The meaning probably seemed "obvious" to those writing the rules, or possibly they were unaware that they had made things unclear. It would be great if ASL rules were written with mathematical precision, but they are not. We have to muddle on as best we can.

JR

 

[Eagle4ty]

.... its about my sheer ignorance of all detail of lots of rules (before I start with the night rules, I will try to learn bocage and PTO)

You are not alone there my friend! AND I've been at this thing for 30+ years!