DTO: The Jick DTO Variation

Actionjick

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Been a long time, but what were the Hex distances and movement factors in AH's Tobruk?
I was wondering the same thing. Never played it but I am sure someone on the forum has.

At lunch checked out some effective ranges of AT guns. The 75 Pak 40 was 1800 meters. I can't recall the 88's but it was incredible. Effective range probably not the same as combat range. Need some ground pounder or treadhead to expound upon that.

I have been thinking that 120 meters might be a good scale for a hex. That would give an effective range of 15 hexes for the Pak 40. At 9 mph ( @ 4 meters a second ) it would take the Matilda 30 seconds to cross a hex. A MMC with Leader MF could do 2 hexes. Units with 3 MF would be at quite a handicap but that may be accurate. Again though the Variation is meant more for vehicles. I really do like the Hybrid idea though.

Just some conjugating with very few facts. A capital mistake according to Sherlock Holmes but fun!
 
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Actionjick

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I was wondering the same thing. Never played it but I am sure someone on the forum has.

At lunch checked out some effective ranges of AT guns. The 75 Pak 40 was 1800 meters. I can't recall the 88's but it was incredible. Effective range probably not the same as combat range. Need some ground pounder or treadhead to expound upon that.

I have been thinking that 120 meters might be a good scale for a hex. That would give an effective range of 15 hexes for the Pak 40. At 9 mph ( @ 4 meters a second ) it would take the Matilda 30 seconds to cross a hex. A MMC with Leader MF could do 2 hexes. Units with 3 MF would be at quite a handicap but that may be accurate. Again though the Variation is meant more for vehicles. I really do like the Hybrid idea though.

Just some conjugating with very few facts. A capital mistake according to Sherlock Holmes but fun!
Would certainly have valued Paul's input to this discussion. What a loss. RIP comrade. 😥
 

Wayne

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Re field-pieces, ASL Chap H ordnance tables have a Range column.

Because ASL vehicle tables have no Range column, for vehicular-gun ranges, you'll generally need a different source (even when vehicular-guns are the same as field-pieces) -- vehicular mounts usually differ from field mounts, and the differences do affect gun ranges.

[Depending on scale, the differences may be a no-matter w/in the confines of a playable game-board, perhaps?]
 

Actionjick

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Re field-pieces, ASL Chap H ordnance tables have a Range column.

Because ASL vehicle tables have no Range column, for vehicular-gun ranges, you'll generally need a different source (even when vehicular-guns are the same as field-pieces) -- vehicular mounts usually differ from field mounts, and the differences do affect gun ranges.

[Depending on scale, the differences may be a no-matter w/in the confines of a playable game-board, perhaps?]
Thanks for the input.
Re field-pieces, ASL Chap H ordnance tables have a Range column.

Because ASL vehicle tables have no Range column, for vehicular-gun ranges, you'll generally need a different source (even when vehicular-guns are the same as field-pieces) -- vehicular mounts usually differ from field mounts, and the differences do affect gun ranges.

[Depending on scale, the differences may be a no-matter w/in the confines of a playable game-board, perhaps?]
 

Zakopious

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Each hex in Tobruk represents 75 meters, side to side.
Infantry moves one hex, they can "run" two hexes but not every turn.
 

Actionjick

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Re field-pieces, ASL Chap H ordnance tables have a Range column.

Because ASL vehicle tables have no Range column, for vehicular-gun ranges, you'll generally need a different source (even when vehicular-guns are the same as field-pieces) -- vehicular mounts usually differ from field mounts, and the differences do affect gun ranges.

[Depending on scale, the differences may be a no-matter w/in the confines of a playable game-board, perhaps?]
Still haven't given much thought to the To Hit process. While the Western Desert obviously allowed guns to engage at much greater ranges at what point should realism step aside in favor of playability?

Also have been thinking about the Hybrid Variation. While the initial thought was appealing there may be issues with it. The Hybrid would switch from Jick DTO tables and movement costs to standard ones at a certain range. Intriguing but there are questions I haven't even asked myself much less answered.

Such as: ( these are all drunken computations and thoughts, my apologies)

Let's say on the Jick To Hit table at a range of ten hexes, 1200 meters, the Basic TH Number is 7. If the Hybrid Variation is used and you switch to the standard tables at what range does that occur? Does it make sense that the Basic TH number at 1200 meters on the Jick Variation is the same as at 400 meters on the standard table?

Again just some thoughts. Cat is on the lap so NRBH or charts.

An interesting process. Even it it comes to nothing it's useful to see what game and scenario designers have to consider in their work. Good stuff.
 

Actionjick

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Took a quick look at the TH Table where the upper range is 54 hexes or greater. That is 2160 meters or 18 hexes using 120 meter hexes. That scale hex seems to be easy to work with.

I need to give the TH some more thought but the weather is decent in NE Ohio today and I have yardwork to do and Christmas lights to put up.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!
 
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