Double Bocage

[M Faulkner]

I am reading a book about the Normandy campaign. The keep referencing a double bocage. Any ideas on hoe to represent that?

 

[Robin Reeve]

A woods hex rather than a hexside could represent double bocage.

 

[M Faulkner]

A woods hex rather than a hexside could represent double bocage.

Hmmm…. Got me thinking.

 

[Eagle4ty]

I am reading a book about the Normandy campaign. The keep referencing a double bocage. Any ideas on hoe to represent that?

What's the book Mike? Where does the action take place? Either may be an indication of how to resolve the question. My initial thoughts are, they may be talking about a narrow lane flanked by two hedgerows. If that's the case designate the "lane" as a narrow one lane road with bocage on either side or perhaps a path in a woods hex with bocage on either side.

 

[M Faulkner]

What's the book Mike? Where does the action take place? Either may be an indication of how to resolve the question. My initial thoughts are, they may be talking about a narrow lane flanked by two hedgerows. If that's the case designate the "lane" as a narrow one lane road with bocage on either side or perhaps a path in a woods hex with bocage on either side.

The Book is The Tale of Two Bridges adapted by Barbara Maddox. It is the story of the 7th Para Battalion in Normandy. The action takes place around Bois de Bavent, specifically around the area known as "Bob's Farm." It was near Le Priere.

 

[M Faulkner]

I think they mean something like this.

 

[von Marwitz]

I am reading a book about the Normandy campaign. The keep referencing a double bocage. Any ideas on hoe to represent that?

1. Bocage on both sides of a road.
2. If the road in between is too small to allow the passage of vehicles, then Woods with a Path, possibly with +2TEM.

von Marwitz

 

[DonWPetros]

One way to simulate this is a Path through Woods (that's been done and mentioned above). But that's limited and it doesn't really simulate the situation well.

Alternatively, doing something new, like a Narrow Street concept - but splitting a Bocage hedge artwork down the middle, creating two parallel lines of bocage that straddle the hexspine itself. Only infantry could traverse in between these 2 parallel rows. A unit should be able to see through one of those parallel lines, but not through both, unless to adjacent hexes if the LOS crosses both double bocage-hedges. To be able to simulate a unit in the pathway in-between the bocage-hedges, (ie. to be able see only through 1 of those bocage-hedges and beyond) you'd have to figure out how to identify that infantry unit located literally on the hexspine itself, instead of on one or the other side of the double-bocage hedge. A new counter type ('in-between') could identify that unit. Suppose it could be done with new Terrain rule and a few counters (need to see MMP on that one).

 

[zgrose]

1. Bocage on both sides of a road.
2. If the road in between is too small to allow the passage of vehicles, then Woods with a Path, possibly with +2TEM.

von Marwitz

I'm leaning towards a woods/gully hex and SSR the MF to 1. But just based on the one image.

 

[M Faulkner]

One way to simulate this is a Path through Woods (that's been done and mentioned above). But that's limited and it doesn't really simulate the situation well.

Alternatively, doing something new, like a Narrow Street concept - but splitting a Bocage hedge artwork down the middle, creating two parallel lines of bocage that straddle the hexspine itself. Only infantry could traverse in between these 2 parallel rows. A unit should be able to see through one of those parallel lines, but not through both, unless to adjacent hexes if the LOS crosses both double bocage-hedges. To be able to simulate a unit in the pathway in-between the bocage-hedges, (ie. to be able see only through 1 of those bocage-hedges and beyond) you'd have to figure out how to identify that infantry unit located literally on the hexspine itself, instead of on one or the other side of the double-bocage hedge. A new counter type ('in-between') could identify that unit. Suppose it could be done with new Terrain rule and a few counters (need to see MMP on that one).

Don,
I have went with a solid hex of brush or woods with a hedge on each side and a strait path down the middle. SSR any specifics.

 

[von Marwitz]

I'm leaning towards a woods/gully hex and SSR the MF to 1. But just based on the one image.

That was my first thought as well. But besides the movement issue, a Gully is a level -1 and will involve Crest Status, whereas Bocage rises from Ground level.

von Marwitz

 

[zgrose]

That was my first thought as well. But besides the movement issue, a Gully is a level -1 and will involve Crest Status, whereas Bocage rises from Ground level.

von Marwitz

What's wrong with being at level -1 given the image? Seems like Crest Status, et al would be applicable in that road as depicted?

 

[von Marwitz]

What's wrong with being at level -1 given the image?

What about the 'bad guys' on the other side of that bocage?
What is the 'other side' of Crest?

The Bocage rules are based on the concept of Wall and Wall Advantage. It is prudent to keep close to it.

Even the Woods/Path +2TEM approach it not optimal for that reason. But at least, it keeps different Levels out that do not reflect the terrain - which is more akin to walls rather than gullies.

Maybe, one should extend the Woods/Path +2TEM approach by the following:
Units ADJACENT to but not in a Double-Bocage hex can claim WA over a hexside between the two.

That way, they could deny enemy units IN such a hex any TEM and get it themselves (just as per the regular WA mechanics) but still cannot see beyond that hex.

This would still leave out the question what happens, if opposing units claim WA over different sides of the same hex. The effect should likely be that they could - only in this case - see each other and fire at each other with +2TEM.

All that said, any rules for Double-Bocage should be kept very simple and as close to the stardard Bocage Concept as possible.


Yet another way to reflect Double-Bocage:

Use Road hex with Hedges on both sides for Double-Bocage which allow the passage of vehicles (i.e. no change from the original here). Introduce a new symbology for Double-Bocage hexes along this line: Bocage on both sides, Path in the middle, and "something new" replacing the OG artwork in the hex.

von Marwitz

 

[Robin Reeve]

From a design for effect perspective, a road bordered by Bocage hexsides on each side would do a lot of the job.
And if you want to avoid road rate, Brush (and a possible path) bordered by Bocage hexsides would do it (Woods would incur Air Burst effects that one would perhaps want to avoid).

 

[Vinnie]

That path seems pretty straight. Nice sight line right down it for an M.G.42....

 

[Wayne]

[See this 30 minute film for a pretty clear/detailed idea of the WWII Normandy hedgerow topography.

My take from the film: ASL-modeling not as Paths but instead as a couple-of-three types of hex-wide woods-trench counters/overlays/HASL-art -- one or more types single-lane vehicle-traversable and w/enough canopy to prevent aerial observation of the lane.]

 

[M Faulkner]

As stated before, I am going with woods or brush hex that fills the entire hex with hedges (bocage) down both sides (hexsides). A straight path will run down the center. Wall Advantage can only be claimed on one set of bocage hexsides at a time. Meaning, one squad can claim two connected bocage hexsides, not both. Two squads (one on each set of bocage hexside) could claim WA on each set of sides. Also, two squad equivalents stacking capacity.

 

[Wayne]

[Re double bocage, I really see something akin to Woods-Trench (not Path) rules as more appropriate in most cases. (Maybe even AT Trench, given likelihood of a crosser nosing down into the way between the hedgerows.) Look again at the video, perhaps. Trench movement / concealment advantages seem called for.

More than one type (via art or SSR) works too.

Shrug. Design as you will, of course, and best wishes.]

 

[M Faulkner]

[Re double bocage, I really see something akin to Woods-Trench (not Path) rules as more appropriate in most cases. (Maybe even AT Trench, given likelihood of a crosser nosing down into the way between the hedgerows.) Look again at the video, perhaps. Trench movement / concealment advantages seem called for.

More than one type (via art or SSR) works too.

Shrug. Design as you will, of course, and best wishes.]

You have a valid point. If this was going on a HASL map, you points would be even more valid. Seeing as it is a geoboard, I want to keep it where no new terrain rules need to be introduced. SSR can take care of particulars.

 

[Old Noob]

"Oh, man! When we wuz in the bocage country, we were assaulted by them Tigers! I mean assaulted!" - Moriarty