Don Greenwood - the Man, the Mystery, the Legend.

bennyb

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Messages
334
Reaction score
10
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Country
llAustralia
Hey guys.

I've seen a few AARs of such things as the World Boardgaming Championships where Don's name is mentioned. I understand Don is actively involved in organising the event and does fraternise with the players. So I was wondering if anyone has tried slipping in the odd "say Don, what's with that VBM Freeze rule?" or "did you really want Prisoners to combine and still attack sequentially?". Or does he react like a stunned celebrity caught by the paparazi, leaving a club at 5am, full of drugs and wearing no pants?
 

wrongway149

Elder Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
9,215
Reaction score
1,625
Location
Willoughby, Ohio
Country
llUnited States
bennyb said:
Hey guys.

I've seen a few AARs of such things as the World Boardgaming Championships where Don's name is mentioned. I understand Don is actively involved in organising the event and does fraternise with the players. So I was wondering if anyone has tried slipping in the odd "say Don, what's with that VBM Freeze rule?" or "did you really want Prisoners to combine and still attack sequentially?". Or does he react like a stunned celebrity caught by the paparazi, leaving a club at 5am, full of drugs and wearing no pants?
I always got the impression that Don thought ASL was a monster that grew out of control, and he could not tame it any longer so gave up. .
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
519
Reaction score
86
Location
Ottawa, Canada
Country
llCanada
bennyb said:
Or does he react like a stunned celebrity caught by the paparazi, leaving a club at 5am, full of drugs and wearing no pants?
You mean not everyone leaves there club meetings like this? :nuts: :clown:
 

Jim McLeod

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
3,332
Reaction score
11
Location
Manitoba
Country
llCanada
bennyb said:
Hey guys.

I've seen a few AARs of such things as the World Boardgaming Championships where Don's name is mentioned. I understand Don is actively involved in organising the event and does fraternise with the players. So I was wondering if anyone has tried slipping in the odd "say Don, what's with that VBM Freeze rule?" or "did you really want Prisoners to combine and still attack sequentially?". Or does he react like a stunned celebrity caught by the paparazi, leaving a club at 5am, full of drugs and wearing no pants?
Upon any questioning regarding ASL, Don would likely pull his 9mm SA pistol out and procede to renovate your in'erds with a few rounds.

:)




=Jim=
 

Gunner

Ernest Borgnine of ASL
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
614
Reaction score
4
Location
Unmotivated Garage
A Lost Canadian said:
You mean not everyone leaves there club meetings like this? :nuts: :clown:
Just you and Candian Dude in your matching rocketship underpants I think. I guess it's just less you have to take off when you go home and jump in your tub of counters! :shock: :clown:
 
Last edited:

Nikon53

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
1,128
Reaction score
13
Location
Ohio
Country
llUnited States
wrongway149 said:
I always got the impression that Don thought ASL was a monster that grew out of control, and he could not tame it any longer so gave up. .
I'd say Pete nails it here. Don did wonderful work, but he still really wanted ASL to be a "beer and pretzel" game. Laid back, casual and easy. It just got too serious for his taste. Funny thing is though, after years of study and play, I think it actually is a beer and pretzel game as far as the grognards are concerned. Just watch McGrath, Pleva, Tracy, Hildebran and that crowd play the game. Takes awhile to learn the ropes, but once you have most of it down pat, the game can be relaxing, casual and just plain fun.
 

ON TOP ASL

Play J94, J98, J110, J111
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
791
Reaction score
17
Location
Rättvik, Sweden
Country
llSweden
but he still really wanted ASL to be a "beer and pretzel" game. Laid back, casual and easy.
Good to hear, I strive towards that, only a thick rulebook in the way for true fun! (And it's damn hard to unlearn the ASL thing for SK-series, so I'm stuck :( :D ).
 

wrongway149

Elder Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
9,215
Reaction score
1,625
Location
Willoughby, Ohio
Country
llUnited States
Nikon53 said:
Takes awhile to learn the ropes, but once you have most of it down pat, the game can be relaxing, casual and just plain fun.
Just like toy soldiers in the sand box. :clown:
 

Pitman

Forum Guru
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,086
Reaction score
2,262
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
It is a beer and pretzels game, true, although it requires about 4 cubic feet to store all the pretzels.
 

Steiner!

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2004
Messages
371
Reaction score
1
Location
Mississippi
Country
llUnited States
It would be a beer & pretzels experience if we could get some one to say "ok the rules are done. Accept them as they are. No more changes. Learn to play the game as it is."

It is as if the federal government has gotten involved....
 

Jim McLeod

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
3,332
Reaction score
11
Location
Manitoba
Country
llCanada
Nikon53 said:
I'd say Pete nails it here. Don did wonderful work, but he still really wanted ASL to be a "beer and pretzel" game. Laid back, casual and easy. It just got too serious for his taste. Funny thing is though, after years of study and play, I think it actually is a beer and pretzel game as far as the grognards are concerned. Just watch McGrath, Pleva, Tracy, Hildebran and that crowd play the game. Takes awhile to learn the ropes, but once you have most of it down pat, the game can be relaxing, casual and just plain fun.
I agree with the sage Mark Nixon.

ASL is a 'simple' game but to quote the Field Marshall, even simple things can be complicated.

That said, the complication lies in the detail which can be absorbed through play.

The basic "beer and pretzels" of it (moving/shooting/running away) is quite simple.

After cursory instruction, I've taught non-gaming types the basics of LOS, moving and shooting.

Much of ASL's image problem is related to the ASLRB. It's scope and breadth has an intimidation factor of 10.0. However, if the new player just concentrates on what he *needs* to know from the Book, that player can be up and running in no time.

Now there is an idea!

Wouldn't it be nice if the bare-ball essentials of playing the game were highlighted in the ASLRB?

Nothing at all fancy, just the basics.





=Jim=
 

Jim McLeod

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
3,332
Reaction score
11
Location
Manitoba
Country
llCanada
Steiner! said:
It would be a beer & pretzels experience if we could get some one to say "ok the rules are done. Accept them as they are. No more changes. Learn to play the game as it is."

It is as if the federal government has gotten involved....
The Fundamentalists are free to play as they wish Barry. The v.1 rules are there to played by those who wish to stay at that point in the Game.

;)

I accept that the ASLRB is not a finely polished product at this point in time and I prefer to stick with the "Age of Reason" group on matters concerning the Game.





=Jim=
 

Sand Bar Bill

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
574
Reaction score
252
Location
Putin's backyard
Country
llUnited States
Chess is "beer and pretzel" rules and "mind numbingly complex" to play.

ASL is "mind numbingly complex" rules and "beer and pretzel" play. For instance, how many can recall the rules regarding BMG's for immobilzed AFV's? Probalby some can, but that is the type of minutiae that I myself can easily forget. - See second sentance of D8.5. :rolleyes:

Roll the dice and move them mice!
 

wrongway149

Elder Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
9,215
Reaction score
1,625
Location
Willoughby, Ohio
Country
llUnited States
Sand Bar Bill said:
Chess is "beer and pretzel" rules and "mind numbingly complex" to play.

ASL is "mind numbingly complex" rules and "beer and pretzel" play. For instance, how many can recall the rules regarding BMG's for immobilzed AFV's? Probalby some can, but that is the type of minutiae that I myself can easily forget. - See second sentance of D8.5. :rolleyes:

Roll the dice and move them mice!
Wow, good one. Never even realized that! Does that apply to MA, such as a Stug?
How about a Grant 75?

This could be huger than the bridge -1 DRM!!!
 

Lempereur1

Kapellmeister
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
925
Reaction score
0
Location
East Coast
Country
llUnited States
Greenwood et al..

Gentleman:

I would like to shed some light from the inside about Don Greenwoods role vs. ASL...

Many think DOn Greewood gave up on ASL. This is the exact opposite of the truth. In fact Don Greenwood was the driving force behind hiring Bob MacNamara, because ASL had become a full time job at Avalon Hill. Don felt that because he could not spend the time ASL deserved with all of his other duties. Half of Don's time was spent evaluating game submissions.

Seeing things from the inside, as I did from 1990 to 1995, Don Greenwood was the biggest behind the scenes supporter of ASL, period. How he may have felt about the growth of the rules had nothing to do with his support for the product. Don was responsible for every board game that went out of Avalon Hill's door. I think a lot of the ASL community failed to see this, since they played nothing else. Don always insisted that ASL was Avalon Hill's premium brand, and should be treated internaly as such. He deflected alot of Upper Management shipping pressure away from Bob McNamara when Bob was working on KGP.

When Avalon Hill was closed, Don was the last man out door. Outward appearances may not show it, but none have done more for ASL than Don Greenwood.

Jim Rose
 

Nikon53

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
1,128
Reaction score
13
Location
Ohio
Country
llUnited States
Lempereur1 said:
Gentleman:

I would like to shed some light from the inside about Don Greenwoods role vs. ASL...

Many think DOn Greewood gave up on ASL. This is the exact opposite of the truth. In fact Don Greenwood was the driving force behind hiring Bob MacNamara, because ASL had become a full time job at Avalon Hill. Don felt that because he could not spend the time ASL deserved with all of his other duties. Half of Don's time was spent evaluating game submissions.

Seeing things from the inside, as I did from 1990 to 1995, Don Greenwood was the biggest behind the scenes supporter of ASL, period. How he may have felt about the growth of the rules had nothing to do with his support for the product. Don was responsible for every board game that went out of Avalon Hill's door. I think a lot of the ASL community failed to see this, since they played nothing else. Don always insisted that ASL was Avalon Hill's premium brand, and should be treated internaly as such. He deflected alot of Upper Management shipping pressure away from Bob McNamara when Bob was working on KGP.

When Avalon Hill was closed, Don was the last man out door. Outward appearances may not show it, but none have done more for ASL than Don Greenwood.

Jim Rose
Jim; Thanks for that more refined response. The image of Don sort of passing the torch to Mac in order to provide a more concentrated devotion to the game certainly rings true from my perspective. Greatly appreciate your insight on this!
 

RobZagnut

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Messages
8,814
Reaction score
1,376
Location
USA
Country
llUnited States
>Many think DOn Greewood gave up on ASL.

I never got that impression. He knew that ASL was TAHGC's cash cow. You could tell by the coverage in The General and the release of the Annuals.

My impression was that he was a game player who ran a game company. ASL was a game he played and enjoyed, but he moved on to other favorites (Turning Point: Stalingrad, Breakout: Normandy).
 

Lempereur1

Kapellmeister
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
925
Reaction score
0
Location
East Coast
Country
llUnited States
ASL FAns

I use to be amazed at some of the direct orders that would come in for ASL. You could always tell when someone got the ASL bug. They would buy $450 to $500 worth of ASL all in one order! Some would order everything in catalog, including all the annuals and generals!

Never in all my 25 years in game development have I seen fans as devoted as ASL fans! I also remember watching Kibler paint the KGP map. Truely awesome!
 
Top