I know and agree that VASL should not be used to determine any rules , rather it should follow them. My point is that with the number of people that use VASL and the fact that it is like this and has not been corrected makes me wonder if this has been overlooked by a large number of people. That in turn makes me wonder if B9.2 was worded the way it was to intentionally prevent this kind of LOS -OR- if it was a poor wording choice (a mistake in the rule book really). That is why I questioned if a poll would be appropriate. I play regularly against 4 opponents and only one of them has quoted this rule in this kind of situation. I would be surprised if the other 3 agree with it.Vasl color coding shouldn't be ANY source of rules correctness.
There is also the issue that there is a PS which appears to support a different interpretation of the rule.I know and agree that VASL should not be used to determine any rules , rather it should follow them. My point is that with the number of people that use VASL and the fact that it is like this and has not been corrected makes me wonder if this has been overlooked by a large number of people. That in turn makes me wonder if B9.2 was worded the way it was to intentionally prevent this kind of LOS -OR- if it was a poor wording choice (a mistake in the rule book really). That is why I questioned if a poll would be appropriate. I play regularly against 4 opponents and only one of them has quoted this rule in this kind of situation. I would be surprised if the other 3 agree with it.
That's an example for comparison... its is alluded to that this is the same TYPE of LOS blockage...The PS says that it is not blocked. The shot from K3 to M0 is clear. Apply the ruling. K1 to L3 is not the question.
It's clear. None of the conditions listed in B9.2 are met. The hex spine is touching the target hex vertex. There's no hedge on L1/L2.Hi gents,
Does the wall block LOS from a firer in K3 to a target (not shown)? A tiny bit of hedge can be seen on the right of the LOS line.
View attachment 24081
Per B9.2 LOS: "....A wall/hedge lying lengthwise (on a hex spine) exactly along a LOS is a Half-Level LOS obstacle only if the wall/hedge hex spine is not touching the viewing or target hex, or if touching one of the viewing/target hexes and the vertex opposite of the viewing/target hex has walls/hedges on all of its three hex spines."
I agree with your point about extrapolating the logic on this. It makes NO sense that the LOS should be blocked IMO. My opponent case rests on what the rules state NOT logic.It's clear. None of the conditions listed in B9.2 are met. The hex spine is touching the target hex vertex. There's no hedge on L1/L2.
Yes, technically this hexspine doesn't lie "exactly along a LOS" per B9.2 in this case. But if we extrapolate the logic so that it is, is the LOS blocked from K3 to M0 (off the image) just along the hexspine? No, as per B9.2. So if it's clear running down the entire length of a hedge hexspine from K3 per the rules why would it be block just clipping a tiny portion of the same hedge?
Dealing with a difficult opponent brings to mind the allegedly true story of an American tourist visiting Scotland who decided to visit one of the islands in the Hebrides. This entailed a short plane journey in a small aircraft carrying about 20 passengers. After the passengers embarked, the plane remained on the runway with the propellors running for a while before moving off and, somewhat unexpectedly, taxiing into the airfield hangar. The air hostess disappeared into the flight cabin and emerged some time later to make an announcement.I agree with your point about extrapolating the logic on this. It makes NO sense that the LOS should be blocked IMO. My opponent case rests on what the rules state NOT logic.
Yeah, I get it. But the rules don't cover every situation. There's a level of common sense that needs to be applied sometimes.I agree with your point about extrapolating the logic on this. It makes NO sense that the LOS should be blocked IMO. My opponent case rests on what the rules state NOT logic.
A suggested corrective re-write for B9.2 (or for use as a house-rule):eASLRB said:B9.2 LOS: Wall and hedge hexsides are Half-Level obstacles to same-level LOS (A6.21) unless the wall/hedge hexside is part of the viewing/target hex. A wall/hedge hexside never blocks LOS to any portion of its own hex even in the case of Snap Shots or vs Bypassing units on the opposite side of that hex [EXC: 9.21]. A wall/hedge lying lengthwise (on a hexspine) exactly along a LOS is a Half-Level LOS obstacle only if the wall/hedge hexspine is not touching the viewing or target hex, or if touching one of the viewing/target hexes and the vertex opposite of the viewing/target hex has walls/hedges on all of its three hexspines.
It took a few more words than the present rule but the rewrite makes the OP LOS Good.B9.2 maybe should have said:B9.2 LOS:
Wall/hedge hexsides are Half-Level obstacles to a same-level LOS (A6.21) except as follows.
A wall/hedge hexside never blocks LOS to any portion of its own hex even in the case of Snap Shots or vs Bypassing units on the opposite side of that hex [EXC: 9.21].
A wall/hedge hexside not part of but connected to just one of the viewer/target hexes doesn't block typical LOS to/from that hex nor Atypical LOS (A6.12) to/from the vertex where that wall/hedge connects to that hex
[EXC: an LOS (normal or Atypical) exactly along a wall/hedge hexside connected to just one of the viewer/target hexes is obstructed along that hexside if the opposite vertex of that hexside has walls/hedges on the other two of its hexspines].
When you start a thread there is an option to include a poll. It's easy to do. I don't know if you can go back to an already posted thread as the OP and start a poll. Something to try out.The fact that VASL does not highlight this LOS as being blocked makes me wonder how many people actually play it as such. I think this may be an oversight in the rules. I wonder if a poll would be in order to see. How do you set one up?
I wasn't able to do that on one of my threads.When you start a thread there is an option to include a poll. It's easy to do. I don't know if you can go back to an already posted thread as the OP and start a poll. Something to try out.
OK thanks for that info.When you start a thread there is an option to include a poll. It's easy to do. I don't know if you can go back to an already posted thread as the OP and start a poll. Something to try out.