Does anybody know...
- Thread starter JimWhite
- Start date
von Marwitz
Forum Guru
It is a heraldic pelican, not a swan.
The heraldic pelican is often depicted on a nest feeding its offspring. It was sometimes said or believed, that the small pelicans would be fed by the flesh of the parent's breast. Probably, because from afar it looks as if the small pelicans are picking at it while the parent regurgirates the fish.
Besides that, I don't know. Some garrsion pin sounds like the best bet. But from a heraldic perspective, it is quite far off the usual heraldic rules.
von Marwitz
The heraldic pelican is often depicted on a nest feeding its offspring. It was sometimes said or believed, that the small pelicans would be fed by the flesh of the parent's breast. Probably, because from afar it looks as if the small pelicans are picking at it while the parent regurgirates the fish.
Besides that, I don't know. Some garrsion pin sounds like the best bet. But from a heraldic perspective, it is quite far off the usual heraldic rules.
von Marwitz
von Marwitz
Forum Guru
The heraldic pelican is found in the flag of Louisiana IIRC. And there is a crocodile or alligator in it, too. Louisiana has a sea-coast. No idea whatsoever about the flowers, though. The rhombi of the fortress' bastions resemble the rhombus of the US 5th Infantry Division who was stationed in Louisiana now an then before it was deactivated - however, the 5th's insignia was a red rhombus.
Complete guesswork if this might be of any meaning, though...
Actually I don't believe I come close in any way.
von Marwitz
Complete guesswork if this might be of any meaning, though...
Actually I don't believe I come close in any way.
von Marwitz
Thanks for all the input so far.
Going with the Louisiana theme...that white "flower" to the right of the pelican could be a Magnolia which is the Louisiana state flower.
Keep any thoughts or ideas coming...
Going with the Louisiana theme...that white "flower" to the right of the pelican could be a Magnolia which is the Louisiana state flower.
Keep any thoughts or ideas coming...
djohannsen
Senior Member
Perhaps try contacting someone at the "Coast Defense Study Group?"
Justiciar
Elder Member
Another tack...is what does the clothes/uniform item it is pinned to tell you? Is that contemporary to the pin? yes/no? What else about the clothes/uniform item can tell you anything. Manufacture label...dated to...material made from... etc. Where did you get this from, what does this tell you of anything? Who had it before you got it, what does this mean if anything? Look for hallmark types of stamps on back of the pin. That looks like button if the blurry background, what does that tell you if anything about the "uniform"...
Thing is that pictures like this always trigger me to figure out what I am looking at.
This is what I have come up with sofar:
1) the pelican must be representing the state of Louisiana;
2) the magnolia looks like the symbol of Alabama;
3) the trident must be representing Mississippi;
4) could the alligator be Florida..?
Could there be a connection with the Mobile Bay battle during the ACW?
Hans
This is what I have come up with sofar:
1) the pelican must be representing the state of Louisiana;
2) the magnolia looks like the symbol of Alabama;
3) the trident must be representing Mississippi;
4) could the alligator be Florida..?
Could there be a connection with the Mobile Bay battle during the ACW?
Hans
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von Marwitz
Forum Guru
I believe you are on the right track here.
The magnolia looks indeed the same in the flag of the Governor of Alabama:
The other flower looks a bit like the one here.
Here something from Wikipedia about the Battle of Mobile Bay - which includes three forts and mentiones three of the states for which we have found some hints with regard to the flowers and the pelican:
Mobile and Mobile Bay were within the Department of Alabama, Mississippi and East Louisiana, led by Major General Dabney H. Maury. Although Mobile was the site of the department headquarters, Maury did not exercise immediate command of the forts at the entrance to the bay, and he was not present during the battle and ensuing siege. Local command was entrusted to Brigadier General Richard L. Page.
The primary contribution of the Confederate Army to the defense of Mobile Bay was the three forts. Fort Morgan was a masonry structure dating from 1834.[12] The fort mounted 46 guns, of which 11 were rifled. Its garrison numbered about 600.[13]
Across the main channel from Fort Morgan on Dauphin Island was Fort Gaines, containing 26 guns, and with a garrison of about 600. When Page was not present, command of the fort fell to Colonel Charles D. Anderson.[14]
At the western end of the bay was Fort Powell, smallest of the three, with 18 guns and about 140 men. It was commanded in Page's absence by Lieutenant Colonel James M. Williams.[15] All three forts were flawed in that their guns were unprotected against fire from the rear; in addition, forts Powell and Gaines lacked adequate traverses.[16]
von Marwitz
Some more possible clues I have found...and it appears these four organizations may have been formed into the 31st Infantry Division a long time ago...
...the search continues...
Alabama National Guard
Florida National Guard
Louisiana National Guard
Mississippi National Guard
...the search continues...
Alabama National Guard Florida National Guard Louisiana National Guard Mississippi National Guard
von Marwitz
Forum Guru
Cool stuff! Apparently getting closer and closer...
von Marwitz
von Marwitz
That information has been requested...
Eagle4ty
Forum Guru
The uniform is Grey and looks to be possibly double breasted. Is it a CSA uniform?
I have never seen any ACW uniform up close, but comparing this with pictures on the internet got me to mentioning the Mobile Bay battle.
Really hope we can get this solved.
I saw the whole uniform when I took the picture of the insignia...but the only thing I remember is that it was some shade of green (at least I'm pretty sure about that).
I'll should be able to get a picture of the whole uniform next weekend...along with the history of the person it belonged to.
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kcole4001
Stray Cat
After Jim's 31 Inf Div clue I found the following:
The gator is from the 124th Inf Reg. insignia which was part of the 31st Div., activated Oct. 1917, sent to France Sept.1918. The div was used as a replacement unit.
From wiki: "It was originally activated as the 10th, a division established in early 1917 consisting of Alabama, Florida, and Georgia national guardsmen. By the end of that same year, the 10th Division became the 31st. In World War II, national guardsmen from Mississippi were included in the division."
155 Inf. Reg. insignia: Mississippi's oldest National Guard unit
167 Inf. Reg. insignia: 4th Alabama"; part of the Alabama National Guard
31 Div. insignia:
So, probably a WW1 31 Div. infantry uniform.
The gator is from the 124th Inf Reg. insignia which was part of the 31st Div., activated Oct. 1917, sent to France Sept.1918. The div was used as a replacement unit.
From wiki: "It was originally activated as the 10th, a division established in early 1917 consisting of Alabama, Florida, and Georgia national guardsmen. By the end of that same year, the 10th Division became the 31st. In World War II, national guardsmen from Mississippi were included in the division."
155 Inf. Reg. insignia: Mississippi's oldest National Guard unit
167 Inf. Reg. insignia: 4th Alabama"; part of the Alabama National Guard
31 Div. insignia:
So, probably a WW1 31 Div. infantry uniform.