does adjacent smoke affect bypass vertex?

[Michael R]

In the attached image, a German unit is leaving hex R9 by bypassing hex S10 along the S9-S10 hexside. The American unit in R8 wishes to fire at the German unit by having LOS to the vertex S9-R9-S10. Does the smoke in R9 give a DRM to the attack?

TIA

 

[zgrose]

Aren't you drawing LOS along an Inherent Hindrance hex-side in R9? I would be a little surprised if the Smoke Hindrance was n/a but #following...

 

[Michael R]

Aren't you drawing LOS along an Inherent Hindrance hex-side in R9? I would be a little surprised if the Smoke Hindrance was n/a but #following...

I agree, but my realism brain is telling me that the unit is in the open ground of S10. That's why I ask.

 

[mgmasl]

From R8

If bypassing S10 there is smoke hindrance.
If bypassing S9 there is NO smoke hindrance

1st case smoke is between firer and target and 2nd case no

 

[zgrose]

I see Klas giving the Like so curious as to what rule makes this the case? I can see this being the case for every LOS line (not through the SMOKE) except the one depicted.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I think the SMOKE needs to be either in the firer's or target's Location or between the two. Don't think the SMOKE is between them when the bypassing unit is in S9. Might even be a Q&A on it.

 

[zgrose]

I think the SMOKE needs to be either in the firer's or target's Location or between the two. Don't think the SMOKE is between them when the bypassing unit is in S9. Might even be a Q&A on it.

I took a peek and found that LOS to the vertex (aka not down a hex-side) won't trigger Inherent terrain. But the LOS thread is clearly on the hex side for the entire length so I'm not seeing where the justification is from. But I'm trying to keep an open mind!

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I took a peek and found that LOS to the vertex (aka not down a hex-side) won't trigger Inherent terrain. But the LOS thread is clearly on the hex side for the entire length so I'm not seeing where the justification is from. But I'm trying to keep an open mind!

Since the SMOKE-hex is the same distance from the target hex (range 1) - I am not sure the SMOKE is considered to be between them - same thing if the hex did not contain SMOKE but was e.g., an Orchard hex.

I know this has come up before, and I seem to recall a Q&A - but perhaps one was just asked and not answered. Don't have time to search for ut now though.

 

[zgrose]

Since the SMOKE-hex is the same distance from the target hex (range 1) - I am not sure the SMOKE is considered to be between them - same thing if the hex did not contain SMOKE but was e.g., an Orchard hex.

Ah, that's an interesting angle (thank you, I'm here all week).

 

[jrv]

The q&a is slightly different as the LOS is not exactly down the hexside in the q&a. That q&a is used in this thread, and here @Perry says that the hindrance does apply in what I think is an analogous shot: http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/los-question-bypass-los.149187/#post-1950860

JR

 

[Jeff Sewall]

The q&a is slightly different as the LOS is not exactly down the hexside in the q&a. That q&a is used in this thread, and here @Perry says that the hindrance does apply in what I think is an analogous shot: http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/los-question-bypass-los.149187/#post-1950860

JR

Yes, Perry issued a "That seems correct to me" instead of a "Sez" on this question. Extrapolating his response to this situation would mean that the smoke does hinder the shot. At least, it would seem correct to him.

 

[Eagle4ty]

As long as the LOS/LOF is drawn along a hexside of a hex containing SMOKE that SMOKE will hinder the shot.

There is only a single Location in hex R9 and effectively SMOKE covers the entire hex. Per the Index: Hex (the area Inside the six hexsides which compose a hex, including those hexsides and their vertices): [Location: A2.8]. Therefore any shot by an American unit shown in the picture to the vertex of S9-R9-S10 would necessarily have to be through a SMOKE hex.​

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The q&a is slightly different as the LOS is not exactly down the hexside in the q&a. That q&a is used in this thread, and here @Perry says that the hindrance does apply in what I think is an analogous shot: http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/los-question-bypass-los.149187/#post-1950860

That's not the Q&A I was thinking about (since in that Q&A the moving unit is beyond the orchard in question [so the orchard is between the firer and target]) - so perhaps it was a Q&A that was only asked but never answered that I am thinking about.

 

[Michael R]

Thank you all for the thoughtful discussion. I followed the link that JRV gave; that post by Perry definitely indicates the smoke would apply to this shot.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Thank you all for the thoughtful discussion. I followed the link that JRV gave; that post by Perry definitely indicates the smoke would apply to this shot.

Perhaps a new Q&A is in order, so we can get a "real" Perry Sez....

 

[Michael R]

I will do that for the benefit of everyone when I return from a trip in two weeks.

 

[Jeff Sewall]

I sent the following Q&A to Perry. It isn't exactly Michael's question, but I tried to come up with the most difficult case to say that the adjacent smoke applies, and I believe this is it. If the answer to this situation is that the shot is hindered, it would be in every other similar case, IMO.



In the situation above, the German and Russian AFV's are both in bypass of the R7 building. LOS between them is along the R7-S7 hexside. Is the smoke in S7 a hindrance to shots between the two AFV's?

 

[mgmasl]

I´ve played always NO because neither in the hex nor between target and firer.. Anyway awaiting for Perry´s answer.