Doctor Sinister vs. Yohajin - CM:BB, June 1941.

[Doctor Sinister]

I am ashamed to report another defeat for Sinister Incorporated.

Picture 1 shows the parameters of the battle. This was only my second CM:BB battle against a human opponent.

Picture 2 is the map. There were two flags, one large one small, indicated by the red circles. It was also pretty flat and, to be honest, not a lot of actual strategy was called for here as it was fairly small with unremarkable terrain - so, rightly or wrongly, I simply went for a straightforward assault on the flag positions with a Rifle Company, supported by a Platoon of Stug IIIBs and a Platoon of Panzer IVEs.

Contact was made very early on, with enemy troops observed in trucks being transported to the front line behind the cover of some trees.

Unfortunately, the enemy also had Tanks...

I decided to spread my Panzers and Assault Guns fairly widely to create wide angles of fire that could criss-cross the map and to then advance forward using the buildings as cover as much as possible.

However it wasn't long before an intense Tank duel began to rage and soon the battle was dominated by the sound of Tank shells flying back and forth.

As will be seen, during this frantic engagement, I lost a total of 9 pieces of armour to my opponents 6. Yohajin also had a master weapon - a KV-1 Heavy tank which proved to be completely invincible. Masterful use of terrain, and of the KV-1 to blow away the buildings some of my Panzers were using as cover proved to be my downfall.

The only success I was able to achieve against this monster Tank was when I managed to knock out its tracks and immobilise it. But as you can see from picture 4 - I immobilised it right by the main victory flag!

Nothing would be able to dislodge it now...

My only remaining Tank had a damaged gun and was incapable of further action at this level.

Undeterred, I decided to harass my enemy by sending my gunless remaining Panzer IV around his right flank to generally annoy him and try to swing the other flag in my favour in a desperate and cheap attempt to get some points. :laugh:

I did manage to take out another truck with the bow machine gun, which was nice...

Picture 5 is the official result.

My Unit of the Game (TM) has to be one of my Panzer IVEs which caused three Infantry casualties and knocked out two enemy T-34's.

Thanks to Yohajin for a good game - and congratulations, now I must kill you.

At this rate, I am merely going to be cannon fodder for all the rest of you!!

Dr. S.

 

[ER_Chaser]

LoL ... Doc, do you need to hire some killers? I am not too expensive at this time of the year (holiday need cash )

And again, why do you always play 1941's german and this time, even allow your enemy with KV's? ... no one can handle that, so do not blame yourself, my lord ---- you are super, no one can even doubt that!

But even no one can beat you on your glorious plan of getting the medal of purple heart here (which requires cannon fodder rating at least once) ... I have been thinking hard about how to get one... but you beat me, my highness --- your wisdom is beyond even a Jedi's mind ... :bow:

 

[Doctor Sinister]

I have this blind spot when it comes to 1941 - visions of German armies advancing across the Russian steppe at enormous distances every day kind of make me think they ought to be invincible.

Then, when I lose, I remember that I am NOT von Runstedt - until the next time...

Dr. S.

 

[ER_Chaser]

the problem is not who is Runstedt ... or Manstein... the problem is no one is as stupid as Stalin

 

[yohajin]

Frankly, I'm gonna have to post some sort of AAR myself. The game was much closer than he let on. My KV1 was the only Soviet tank to effectively survive the duel (much to my dismay). When I assaulted one of the positions my smoke drop fell off target and caused major problems. Early on I thought I was gonna roll over him because of the way things were going, but it turned into a truly bloody contest that had me sweating until the final five turns!

Yohajin

 

[Doctor Sinister]

Frankly, I'm gonna have to post some sort of AAR myself. The game was much closer than he let on. My KV1 was the only Soviet tank to effectively survive the duel (much to my dismay). When I assaulted one of the positions my smoke drop fell off target and caused major problems. Early on I thought I was gonna roll over him because of the way things were going, but it turned into a truly bloody contest that had me sweating until the final five turns!

Yohajin

Kind words my friend - but I still lost. :laugh:

Dr. S.

 

[The Purist]

Do you folks take into account historical factors when setting up your QBs. For me, it only makes sense that if you want to '*re*-create' Barbarossa you need to take certain factors into account, two of them being:

1) In July through about September most of the Russian troops should be of low quality
2) KVs and T-34s should be very limited in use. Wea re playing the roles of battalion commanders, at best,...it would be highly unlikely that we would have large quantities of these tanks available. Historically, the good tanks were spread quite thinly.

I realize that playing with the 'good stuff' appeals to a Russian player but elite troops with top equipment isn't much fun for the other guy.

 

[ER_Chaser]

Do you have CMBB, purist?

The early war QB settings only allow Russian to have up to regular troops. But that is hardly any penalty at all. Regular works fine.

The T34's are ok but still formidable. It is much easier to knock out than historical account. And they do not have radios, as a result, they react extremely slowly. So it is ok for T34s.

The real problem is the KV tanks. They are really undestroyable. One single conscript KV tank will repel basically whatever attacks for no reason other than their invincibility. And they have very large amount of ammo, so it is even fruitless to try to draw all its ammo out by sacrificing your units on it.

IMHO, early war KVs should be banned in Russian defense or ME missions.

In Russian attack missions, it is ok to allow KVs, because the 88 can rule them easily.

 

[Doctor Sinister]

Do you folks take into account historical factors when setting up your QBs. For me, it only makes sense that if you want to '*re*-create' Barbarossa you need to take certain factors into account, two of them being:

1) In July through about September most of the Russian troops should be of low quality
2) KVs and T-34s should be very limited in use. Wea re playing the roles of battalion commanders, at best,...it would be highly unlikely that we would have large quantities of these tanks available. Historically, the good tanks were spread quite thinly.

I realize that playing with the 'good stuff' appeals to a Russian player but elite troops with top equipment isn't much fun for the other guy.

I was asking for it really - I was the one who proposed an "unlimited" setup, and confirmed this when Yohajin queried it. Just shoot me now!

I take your point, but it also has to be fun for both players. I wouldn't personally like to play with troops I had deliberately disabled to be of low quality, and I wouldn't ask anyone else to do this either - well, not in a Meeting Engagement like this one anyway, might be different if it was a proper historical scenario I suppose...

Dr. S.

 

[Doctor Sinister]

The real problem is the KV tanks. They are really undestroyable. One single conscript KV tank will repel basically whatever attacks for no reason other than their invincibility. And they have very large amount of ammo, so it is even fruitless to try to draw all its ammo out by sacrificing your units on it.

IMHO, early war KVs should be banned in Russian defense or ME missions.

In Russian attack missions, it is ok to allow KVs, because the 88 can rule them easily.

Well, it was fun trying to kill it. I even tried to throw a few mortar shells at it in desperation at one stage. I had thought myself lucky to immobilise it - it did at least allow me to move my last Panzer around a bit (even though it was useless), but all I did was create an immense invincible pillbox.

Dr. S.

 

[The Purist]

"Do you have CMBB, purist?"

Yes, had it for years, but I am only playing my first human opponent now. Its good to know that 'regular' is the best available.

"...I wouldn't personally like to play with troops I had deliberately disabled to be of low quality, and I wouldn't ask anyone else to do this either... "

Fair enought but some limitation may be necessary and I think the game imposed 'regular' status would work fine. As for KVs I am not sure of a ban,...strict limits based on date may be necessary. It sound very much like the KV 'played' out very historically. You practically lifted an oft repeated occurance right from the history books. A single KV causing no end of problems until a 'demo' charge took it out or an 88 was moved into place to deal with the problem.

It is just so very difficult to recreate the poor doctrine used by early soviet commanders.

 

[Iron Mike USMC]

Fair enought but some limitation may be necessary and I think the game imposed 'regular' status would work fine. As for KVs I am not sure of a ban,...strict limits based on date may be necessary. It sound very much like the KV 'played' out very historically. You practically lifted an oft repeated occurance right from the history books. A single KV causing no end of problems until a 'demo' charge took it out or an 88 was moved into place to deal with the problem.

It is just so very difficult to recreate the poor doctrine used by early soviet commanders.

I am just finishing reading "A Frozen Hell", about the Russo-Finnish Winter War. The Finns, with some experience were able to knock out the early T-34s with limited to non-existent access to anti-tank guns. The few references to KVs indicated they were next to impossible to destroy without proper (long range) anti-tank weapons, which the Finns lacked.

It also discussed how totally irresponsible and unimaginitive the Russian leaders were in executing the war. Some excuse is laid to the purge, but some leaders did not learn.

 

[ER_Chaser]

hey hey hey... I am not talking about history, I am talking about the game's playability. As you put it, Purist, the terrible command of the Soviet troops were the reason for the success of Barbarossa. This is not (ABSOLUTELY NOT) to happen in a CMBB game --- because YOU are commanding there.
So you cannot repeat history completely in a game here, it is simply impossible. And besides, unnecessary.
So I was only talking about playability and balance issue. Well, if you like to try to kill a KV and think it is fun, no one can stop you though

 

[Doctor Sinister]

Well, if you like to try to kill a KV and think it is fun, no one can stop you though

We ought to create a mini-challenge for this - setup a scenario with a single KV Tank, and give the Axis player 300 points to play with as he/she wishes - the sole objective is to knock out the KV and claim a free lollipop.

Dr. S.