Do you use motion counters for motorcycles?

[John Fedoriw]

Hi gents,

I always have in the past, however I want to make sure this is correct. I was playing a scenario with them tonight and discovered that VASL does not seem to allow you to automatically place a motion counter on a motorcycle with a right click like it does for other vehicles. My opponent & I wondered if this was intentional or an oversight in VASL.

Per D2.12 STARTING & D2.13 STOPPING: A vehicle not under a Motion counter must expend one MP to start or stop. Per D15.1 Motorcycles are vehicular....so they do pay a start & stop MP. Correct? Per D15.5 TARGET STATUS: Fire is directed at the Rider of the motorcycle—not at the motorcycle itself...Is this why they have no motion counter? Perhaps because they are always -1 TEM not subject to FFMO/FFNAM ?

I am slightly confused by it. Am I overthinking this?

Thanks,
John

 

[ScottRomanowski]

The D15.41 example shows they definitely pay Start and Stop MP, and D15.53 has "...if the motorcycle is currently moving or in Motion...". So yes, I'd place Motion counters on motorcycles

 

[Michael R]

This is an oversight in VASL. It could probably be changed. I will post something in the appropriate thread.

 

[nekengren2]

D15.5 specifically says ITT has -1 TH-DRM. Of course that could be in addition to Motion. I can see how the VASL author might get confused on this.


15.5 TARGET STATUS: Fire is directed at the Rider of the motorcycle—
not at the motorcycle itself and therefore does not cause any Collateral
Attack or Immobilization result. Motorcyclists are considered an
Infantry Target Type with no Target Size modifier. However, all fire vs a
mounted motorcyclist is subject to a -1 To Hit DRM for ordnance or a -1
IFT DRM for non-ordnance weapons. All ordnance hits vs motorcyclists
are resolved on the IFT (but not on the « Vehicle Line). However, as Riders,
motorcyclists are not subject to FFMO/FFNAM and would be subject
to vehicular To Hit DRM. Any unmounted motorcycle is considered a SW
for purposes of self- and Random Destruction (A9.73-.74).

 

[John Fedoriw]

The D15.41 example shows they definitely pay Start and Stop MP, and D15.53 has "...if the motorcycle is currently moving or in Motion...". So yes, I'd place Motion counters on motorcycles

It looks like I overlooked that example.

This is an oversight in VASL. It could probably be changed. I will post something in the appropriate thread.

This seems like the most likely answer.

D15.5 specifically says ITT has -1 TH-DRM. Of course that could be in addition to Motion. I can see how the VASL author might get confused on this.

Sure, or it could just be a simple oversight having nothing to do with the rules at all....

Thanks gents.

 

[ScottRomanowski]

It looks like I overlooked that example.

I only found it because I used 'search' in the eASLRB.

 

[Futbol]

next up motion for bicycles

 

[von Marwitz]

next up motion for bicycles

"D15.81 MOVEMENT: Bicycles have no MP allotment of their own. Instead, they have the same MF allotment as their Riders would if Infantry (including Leader Bonus and Double Time, if applicable) and use Infantry—not vehicular—movement [EXC: they may not use Assault Movement]."

Bicycles are SW and not Vehicles. They don't spend MPs.
As such, no Motion counters for Bicycles.

von Marwitz

 

[Stewart]

It's likely a Counter Global Property that wasn't added as it's a WHITE counter.

 

[nekengren2]

It's likely a Counter Global Property that wasn't added as it's a WHITE counter.

ahhhhh. yeah sounds likely. I recently started building a new game with VASSAL so I can actually understand what "Counter Global Property" means.

I'm amazed that VASL is usually correct on rules implementation for such a complex game like ASL. Sometimes we can't even agree on what the rule is.